Combat aside, one of the issues of Serenwilde is a lack of people interested in doing miscellaneous things in-game-- a lack of people having fun.

So, that's the question: How do you crate orgs where people want to have fun? What sorts of things have other orgs done to create a fun-loving atmosphere?

In Seren, we've played pass-the-weevils (surprisingly fun). But that alone doesn't foster the creative, we-want-to-have-fun atmosphere I'd like to see develop.

What other events have folks run successfully? What kinds of things are effective for bringing characters together and having them interact in a happy, positive, organization-building sort of way?

24/7 vengeance games.

A lot of Serens gave up trying to organize games after they got very tiny showings.

Plus, part of Vengeance is about lying to your buddies. (I guess it's also about working with your buddies... Hm.)

I was the only person really starting vengeance games really, and then I stopped when everybody always killed me first in it, good job biting the hand that feeds you guys!

As for event ideas, I guess power contests, pixie contests, fae contests, but really Enya's right. Lendren would have pages and pages to write saying that, I'm sure.

The thing that fascinates me is that the Serenwilde used to be probably the biggest (or at least most popular) organization in Lusternia, at least when I started playing regularly (mid 2005), and over time they've sort of reduced themselves in power and prestige. What has happened? A mass exodus of leaders? The new cities suck a lot of people out? Is there something about the commune itself that has made people leave? (Maybe it got too familiar and cliche or something like that). Or is it just attracting people who are more hunters and questers than role-players?

Things do seem to be getting better--at the very least things seem to be getting a little more even when it comes to combat and village influencing.

I love Serenwilde.

But I find it stale, having alted around and jumped to hallifax then back over the years, Serenwilde feels kinda... constant. Serenwilde was big back in the early days, maybe up until the first war with celest in 2006 I think but since then it's just been endless cycles of infighting and hasn't really been the same since.

Throwing two new orgs in did not help and I expect that more may be lost once their other guilds are added, but even the addition of extra guilds can hurt an org with low numbers by dividing its population and making it harder for flagging guilds to recover.

I haven't been around enough, but has anything really Serenwilde based happened/released recently? Given that it's a quest event I'm not sure I'd count the giving tree yet.

It's also about the type of people Serenwilde can attract. I know I myself haven't been as engaging as in the past, but that's for a number of different reasons--I'm usually only able to log on an hour or so before I go to bed, so I'm exhausted as it is. And the culture of Serenwilde is that you can't force anyone to bend to your will, which makes correction and motivations rather difficult even in the best of times.

EDIT: No, not since every recent event has been a monthly promotion has there truly been an engaging Serenwilde event. But even so, I don't think that's the problem--the problem is among the players, not the Admin.

Everiine:

EDIT: No, not since every recent event has been a monthly promotion has there truly been an engaging Serenwilde event. But even so, I don't think that's the problem--the problem is among the players, not the Admin.

It's less overt and expected as an org falls more silent, but some of the most interesting times I found in Serenwilde were when we merged the north and south into one forest or grew the bridges (I wasn't even present but it was still a boost). Unfortunately it's not something that players can ever replicate without divine assistance.

Primarily, I think Serenwilde might need a little tending. Looking into why people aren't interested and attempting to address that, players can do this in some ways but I think it is going to need help from both sides.

As an example, fixing druids might create a temporary boost in their population on the flip-side it could end up like the dreamweaving and demesne changes which I think had disappointment and membership drops following them.

Serenwilde isn't the only place! While I think they're amazinglyfantabulousohmygosh, I think the Geomancers and the Nihilists could stand to be a little more fun.

Saran:


It's less overt and expected as an org falls more silent, but some of the most interesting times I found in Serenwilde were when we merged the north and south into one forest or grew the bridges (I wasn't even present but it was still a boost). Unfortunately it's not something that players can ever replicate without divine assistance.

Primarily, I think Serenwilde might need a little tending. Looking into why people aren't interested and attempting to address that, players can do this in some ways but I think it is going to need help from both sides.

As an example, fixing druids might create a temporary boost in their population on the flip-side it could end up like the dreamweaving and demesne changes which I think had disappointment and membership drops following them.

Oh, I agree. That event, and (for me) the whole Grutina Oakvine event, which I think was superbly written, definitely made the game feel more "real"--partly because they had lasting consequences. I know that the monthly IRE promotional "events" won't have nearly the impact, which is why I am never excited about them.

But I also think that events only go so far--players have to meet the other half and be engaging on their own.

It seemed like there was a noticeable surge of activity in Serenwilde when Hoaracle came about, which makes sense.

The problem that stemmed from that, however, is that a lot of people who cast aside their first order for His ended up disagreeing with His views. This led to a pretty large rift between the more combative half of the population, and Seren's only active god. It just goes to show that not every action on behalf of the admin turns out as expected.

But I also think that events only go so far--players have to meet the other half and be engaging on their own.

Unfortunate truth is that a lot of people expect to be spoonfed. When they aren't, they get discouraged, and it just brings them down even further. Serenwilde is host to a good number of people with that attitude, which digs a hole that's pretty hard to get back out of. But I have hope for Seren, even if it's just a little bit.

To me, Serenwilde has always suffered from a conceptual lack of focus.

To over generalize a bit, look at what you can do with hypothetical "victory cries". The other orgs can largely make one, if they had a mind to, that is essentially "for the ______". Fill it in with Light/Wyrd/Collective/Freedom/Engine or whatever.

What can Serenwilde do there? "For the often ambiguous concept of what constitutes pure nature, which includes elements that can be hijacked by various other orgs to various degrees."?

Add in to the mix the sort of (to me at least) odd at times "native american" feel to parts of the commune, juxtaposed against more ah, "traditional fantasy forest" elements, a monk guild kinda flung in there, all tugging in different directions at times, and with more internal conflict in the lore history than other orgs, which is then painted over out of the necessity of having a practially functional organizaton. It makes it harder for Serenwilde to say "this is what we're about".

It's not a bad thing to have these more unique elements, but it does introduce some challenges that other orgs don't face. Serenwilde strikes me as an org that would really thrive in a one-org style MUD.

If I could make a list of ways to tweak Serenwilde from a position of omnipotence, I'd do some of the following:

• Find a way to give the org more coherence and unity.
  
• Find a way to emphasize, or create new, elements of Serenwilde that can't be readily hijacked, subverted or superceded by other orgs.
  
• Similarly, emphasize or create elements for Serenwilde that are dangerous/dark/"cool". (yes, I know these exist in theory already, but in practice there's either no weight behind them, or they are virtually ignored, inconsequential, or not significant enough to matter.)
  

Ultimately, the org always seems to generally suffer from a lack of structure in its narrative. Without that structure, people are prone to just sort of exist and meander about.


Something the admin could definitely do is help along the development of something for Seren characters to really get behind. Something more coherent than what is out there now, to provide common purpose and a reason to work/sacrifice for the org.

Enyalida:

A lot of Serens gave up trying to organize games after they got very tiny showings.

Pretty much this. I can't be bothered putting any more time into even bothering to organise/run these things because I know I'll get maybe 1/4 of the people logged in at most participating.

Romertien:

Plus, part of Vengeance is about lying to your buddies. (I guess it's also about working with your buddies... Hm.)

I've actually heard people use this argument about why they don't want to play Vengeance, which is a bit ridiculous. It is a game, even in the IC context. It is meant to be about manipulation and lying to your friends. That is the whole point of it. There is no need to feel guilty about it.

rika:

I've actually heard people use this argument about why they don't want to play Vengeance, which is a bit ridiculous. It is a game, even in the IC context. It is meant to be about manipulation and lying to your friends. That is the whole point of it. There is no need to feel guilty about it.

Unless you're Glom, in which case it sometimes boils down to "Look, a non-glom *lynch*". Although not having played a vengeance-game in quite some time, I'm not sure if that habit is gone or not :P

Rainydays:
Add in to the mix the sort of (to me at least) odd at times "native american" feel to parts of the commune

You leave my guild alone! :P

Part of this may be due to Serenwilde being the first forest. Its fine to just be a forest and do forest things when there aren't any others, but when Glomdoring came along things changed. Oh gods, the whole shift with the Tah'vrai.

Within the eight orgs(yes I include Jojoberry) Serenwilde needs to have a defined place, something that it is rather than what it is not. (It's this place that's about freedom but not to the extent that Gaudi is, and harmony kinda but not to the Hallifax extent, and being pure but not in the same way that Celest is, they can be heartless but not as much as Glomdoring or Magnagora)

I 'Like'd Saran's above post just for the usage of the Jojoberry moniker.

Anyway, moving on. One of the main reasons I moved from Serenwilde to Glomdoring very early on (aside from Penumbra's +cha/regen) is that Serenwilde has always seemed less focused. Sure, back in the day they had Sojiro (Shuyin) and Xiel (Viynain) along with a whole battalion of fighters that essentially made it the top org (or at least, not the bottom), but behind the strong face...what is Serenwilde?

Glomdoring is the shade of grey: pure forest - taint - magic of Isune/Viravain - poof - Wyrd, and the players have molded this vagueness to the benefit of the organization. Serenwilde, on the other hand is a shade of grey: it's pure forest and nature, but then you question what exactly the definition of nature is. It doesn't help that there are features like the Moondance Tower, the Serenguard Lodge, the Spiritsinger Treehouse, etc. that dot Serenwilde's landscape. Maybe the players can do it themselves and turn the direction of the organization to where they like, but this is not Old Glomdoring. Like some of the above posts said, the players that are attracted to Serenwilde are different from those attracted to Glomdoring. So I guess I'm really leaning towards some sort of admin nudge towards something less nebulous than what Serenwilde is right now.


EDIT: This is from an OOC point of view. I'm sure there are those rabid Gloms out there who'd claw my head off for even suggesting Glomdoring was Tainted, or that there was any connection to Gloriana.

Admin nudges won't work, I'm afraid. There is no nudge subtle enough that wouldn't be fought hand and foot, tooth and nail by Serenwilders, even those who agree that making Serenwilde have a direction and drive is a good idea. It's part of the reason that we don't have any active divine.

(As far as I can tell,) For a long time, Serenwilde was left to its own devices. The first patron of Seren, Auseklis, literally said in a news post that Serenwilders should "not expect Me to guide your every action, nor to hold your hand even if you ask." Seren grew up on its own, figuring out its own way. In that time, there were a lot of defining events for the guilds and Serenwilde as a whole, not only was Serenwilde the only Commune, two of its three guilds were totally unique. The Hartstone and the Moondancers were the only Wiccan and Druid guilds in existance, and enjoyed free reign of their domains (and demesnes, aaaahhh the glory days). Fast forward through the introduction of Glom and the new guilds, and you've got a declining nation that is primarily 5 guilds that know close to nothing about each other, each guided by the assumption that they had the right of it, all persuaded that tradition was what set Serenwilde apart.

Tradition, tradition, tradition. Serenwilde is trying to keep the 'ways of Nature' alive after all this time, and is stuck in a funk. Admins/gods that step into a Serenwilde role, who may not understand that Serenwilders mostly just want to be left alone, just get burned as they try to shake things into their conception of place. It's happened several times (apparently), and we fear that Hoaracle is on the way out, though we're crossing our fingers that it's not the case. Look at what's going on with Magnagora and NewFain, it's the same deal except that Serenwilde is a tougher crowd!

I sense that I'm rambling (I defintily am), and I've said.... probably most of what I meant to communicate, so on to suggestions!

The only real suggestion I can make as far as admin interjection/intervention is that any event designed to facilitate a purpose in Serenwilde take the form of an open ended identity crisis. Some event that sets forth the need for a choice, a solid and intentional choice that can take nearly any form.

Enyalida:

Admin nudges won't work, I'm afraid. There is no nudge subtle enough that wouldn't be fought hand and foot, tooth and nail by Serenwilders, even those who agree that making Serenwilde have a direction and drive is a good idea. It's part of the reason that we don't have any active divine.

(As far as I can tell,) For a long time, Serenwilde was left to its own devices. The first patron of Seren, Auseklis, literally said in a news post that Serenwilders should "not expect Me to guide your every action, nor to hold your hand even if you ask." Seren grew up on its own, figuring out its own way. In that time, there were a lot of defining events for the guilds and Serenwilde as a whole, not only was Serenwilde the only Commune, two of its three guilds were totally unique. The Hartstone and the Moondancers were the only Wiccan and Druid guilds in existance, and enjoyed free reign of their domains (and demesnes, aaaahhh the glory days). Fast forward through the introduction of Glom and the new guilds, and you've got a declining nation that is primarily 5 guilds that know close to nothing about each other, each guided by the assumption that they had the right of it, all persuaded that tradition was what set Serenwilde apart.

Tradition, tradition, tradition. Serenwilde is trying to keep the 'ways of Nature' alive after all this time, and is stuck in a funk. Admins/gods that step into a Serenwilde role, who may not understand that Serenwilders mostly just want to be left alone, just get burned as they try to shake things into their conception of place. It's happened several times (apparently), and we fear that Hoaracle is on the way out, though we're crossing our fingers that it's not the case. Look at what's going on with Magnagora and NewFain, it's the same deal except that Serenwilde is a tougher crowd!

I sense that I'm rambling (I defintily am), and I've said.... probably most of what I meant to communicate, so on to suggestions!

The only real suggestion I can make as far as admin interjection/intervention is that any event designed to facilitate a purpose in Serenwilde take the form of an open ended identity crisis. Some event that sets forth the need for a choice, a solid and intentional choice that can take nearly any form.

There are issues with this, from an outsiders point of view it took multiple meetings with leadership of Glomdoring after various attempts by Viravains but it wasn't until the wyrd event that things started to come together for them.

It's a bit awks and reuse...y but there could be some form of lost history. Something that was forgotten for us, something that returns through the mists. Working with the elements that are present rather than crafting an image and dumping it on top. It's also something that the admin will need to work with the players on to achieve.

Serenwilde being heistant with change is a result of constant changes taking their place away, very likely because this place was never truly established by anyone other than the players.
For example, it is easy for players to decide that they are the protectors of the fae against vile enslavers, but then an event tells you you're wrong and well... you've just lost some of your rp. But if the admin did not have input on this then it's the players fault because they did not have the behind the scenes knowledge to avoid the mistake. Which summed up means... we need Estarra *activates the auntie-tarra signal*.