Unknown2012-01-20 05:07:01
Alternatively, give everything lacking a weakness to Divinus a slight resistance to it. This is a significantly more immediate solution that does not rely on labor intensive coding of new areas; nor does it allows some of said new areas (hello, gutters) to continue to cater to Divinus over Excoro.
Rika2012-01-20 06:10:51
I find it amazing how people are still so worked up over divinus weaknesses in PvE when there are so many more OP and more important PvP differences with damage types.
Unknown2012-01-20 06:12:59
rika:
I find it amazing how people are still so worked up over divinus weaknesses in PvE when there are so many more OP and more important PvP differences with damage types.
Oh, I get worked up about that too. Just because another problem exists should not preclude us from drawing attention to this one.
Unknown2012-01-20 06:50:56
rika:
I find it amazing how people are still so worked up over divinus weaknesses in PvE when there are so many more OP and more important PvP differences with damage types.
Ttly. Asphyx/poison *rage*
Rika2012-01-20 06:52:20
No way, psychic is the new flavour of the month with the Gaudibard attack.
Unknown2012-01-20 07:26:39
Divinus and Excoro still take the cake; most people can't get more than 10 DMP to either.
Kiradawea2012-01-20 07:39:34
I still find it deliciously ironic that forestals are best equipped to resist cosmic damage thanks to their huge catch-all DMP.
Enyalida2012-01-20 07:40:39
By 'forestals' you mean 'moon/night users', of course.
Kiradawea2012-01-20 07:42:09
Yes. The point being that they're forestals. From the forests. With no connection to the cosmic planes.
Enyalida2012-01-20 08:15:04
Unless I'm majority missing something (hey, it is late), 'cosmic damage types' have almost nothing to do with 'cosmic planes'. The types are called cosmic because that's the scale they are sourced on, that of the cosmos. They invoke aspects of primal forces that emerged during cosmogenesis. The cosmic planes are manifestations of ideals, and it just so happens that they line up in various ways to the two 'cosmic damage types'.
Kiradawea2012-01-20 09:16:26
Nimbus, the only skill that protects specifically against the cosmic damage types, appears in the cosmic skillset.
Malarious2012-01-20 11:36:32
Most of the "major pvp concerns" are not likely to change. What do I define as the other major concerns? Tuning, which is still an improved damage rune for free. Even cudgels seem to do really high damage now. The baseline for damage on "magic" went up and they can easily control their damage type. DamageShift is more advantageous to casters than any physical guild. I am still waiting for someone to show any proof that casters are not above and beyond other guilds. I went and grabbed info and at the time Illuminati did more DPS to mobs than anyone else (yes there is a way to track this). Damage / (eq|bal) = DPS.
Bashing was screwed up awhile ago. You want to be Institute, celestine, or maybe like moondancer for top tier bsahing right now. Do NOT go monk if you want top tier, better off with warrior.
Bashing was screwed up awhile ago. You want to be Institute, celestine, or maybe like moondancer for top tier bsahing right now. Do NOT go monk if you want top tier, better off with warrior.
Unknown2012-01-20 14:20:28
Malarious:
Most of the "major pvp concerns" are not likely to change. What do I define as the other major concerns? Tuning, which is still an improved damage rune for free. Even cudgels seem to do really high damage now. The baseline for damage on "magic" went up and they can easily control their damage type. DamageShift is more advantageous to casters than any physical guild. I am still waiting for someone to show any proof that casters are not above and beyond other guilds. I went and grabbed info and at the time Illuminati did more DPS to mobs than anyone else (yes there is a way to track this). Damage / (eq|bal) = DPS.
Bashing was screwed up awhile ago. You want to be Institute, celestine, or maybe like moondancer for top tier bsahing right now. Do NOT go monk if you want top tier, better off with warrior.
I do fine as a monk. Even as a human (I had to check, both for essence reasons, and to see how much of my rawr-toughness was coming from orclach), I can take a pretty fair beating well beyond what I excpected as a bard, and keep up enough of an offensive patter to do respectively well comparatively.
What hurts is the blunt damage. Blunt is one of those types that is generally neutral for bashing, but more often resisted than vulnerable to. But even with astral bulls (cutting weakness/blunt resist), when I bash there with Aliod (templar (with goodluck and kirigami naturally) blademaster), I don't feel the results are skewed to the point I feel useless.
But, yes, as has been said, monks are nothing like what they once were, in terms of bashing corpse count. While we're on the topic, I've seen a druid or two top the charts on astral trips, so I generally disregard any druid-martyrs, at least in the realm of bashing. They're better than fine.
As for exo-div, if they're made the same for hunting, then they should be equal for PvP. They aren't. Div's bonus is against a subset of people who, if we want to get technical about it, can even control whether they are vulnerable to div or not. Exco's bonus is against everyone but that subset. "Equality everywhere but where I have an advantage" is not equality.
The best course is to make exco work as advertised- have it do its extra damage to all targets, and then lay out the resistances as makes sense.
Xenthos2012-01-20 15:11:26
Rainydays:
All of which ignores that excorable will do more damage to the large majority of the player base.
Want bashing equality in the name of mechanics? That's fine. But then there needs to be combat equality along with that, and Div should be hammering more people than a small subset of people.
So far, all I see is a lot of "I want equality where it benefits me".
A better solution, which would leave the RP of it all intact, would be to just make sure that exco is doing its general extra damage to bashing targets as well.
Then let the admin introduce new exco-friendly areas over time.
That is the design. Roleplay > Mechanics, or thus we are being told!
Still, you fix that by just adding a little more ability to get DMP against excorable and / or Divinus. That one's really easy to address, and has no bearing on making the immense difference in the PvE world something that actually makes sense and is a little closer to balanced.
Rika2012-01-20 19:31:16
Cosmic damage types /= from the cosmic plane. The damage types aren't Celestus/Niloro/Vortexcoro/Continuus. Non-guardian classes also have divinus/excoro attacks.
Talan2012-01-20 20:07:13
One thing that adds insult to injury as far as the whole Divinus >> Excorable thing is the scale. It's not simply that darn near everything worth bashing is resistant to excorable, but rather that things are greatly weak, terribly weak, majorly weak, etc., to divinus.
Not only is one group getting a constant penalty, but it's in the face of the other half getting huge bonuses.
I think it would be nice if these were scaled back a bit. Since the admin are firm on the necessity of keeping the resistances as they are in the broad strokes, maybe they would be more willing to tone down the specifics. For example, is it necessary for a couple of guilds to get moderate-major bonuses all over the place? Couldn't they just be 'mild', since they're practically universal?
P.S. Since that 'ice angels' teaser was loosed a few months ago during the leadup to the big event, I was really expecting high level weak-to-excorable bashing to be included in the end result. Much as I enjoyed the big surprise and the switcheroo, I can't help but feel like an opportunity was missed here. It kind of makes the assertions that you will look into creating areas with excorable weaknesses for end-game players seem disingenuous you know? Since you could have and... didn't. Climanti is awesome - so much more than I was expecting. It's just the fact that it's not the one thing that I was expecting, kind of stings.
Not only is one group getting a constant penalty, but it's in the face of the other half getting huge bonuses.
I think it would be nice if these were scaled back a bit. Since the admin are firm on the necessity of keeping the resistances as they are in the broad strokes, maybe they would be more willing to tone down the specifics. For example, is it necessary for a couple of guilds to get moderate-major bonuses all over the place? Couldn't they just be 'mild', since they're practically universal?
P.S. Since that 'ice angels' teaser was loosed a few months ago during the leadup to the big event, I was really expecting high level weak-to-excorable bashing to be included in the end result. Much as I enjoyed the big surprise and the switcheroo, I can't help but feel like an opportunity was missed here. It kind of makes the assertions that you will look into creating areas with excorable weaknesses for end-game players seem disingenuous you know? Since you could have and... didn't. Climanti is awesome - so much more than I was expecting. It's just the fact that it's not the one thing that I was expecting, kind of stings.
Unknown2012-01-21 00:48:08
Oh, I'm not opposed to more exco friendly stuff out there, but what I am a little irked by is the general feeling that "exco should be just as good as div for bashing, regardless of the fact that it is generally better for PvP." Which is why I'll keep bringing it up.
The people best off in all this are researchers- since they can ultimately choose either one. I would also like to say that the part of me that liked making really big health totals as a knight, or seeing how high I could get the numbers on my katana to go, or things like that, is terribly, terribly jealous of excorable damage simply because it ultimately does more in PvP, and I simply won't have any access to it.
One idea I've been bouncing about in my head- I know there will be no exco/div runes, and that won't help anyone but knights and monks anyway. So I had a better idea. What if we had two artifacts, one for excorable, one for div, that cost about 1000 credits apiece, and would convert 50% of the users attack to exco or div?
Or if instead, a tunable artifact that could be set, say, once a month to a particular damage type- and would nullify up to say, a moderate resistance to that damage type, and reduce anything higher?
It would probably be much easier than the admin having to mollify whatever side feels screwed by the latest release.
The people best off in all this are researchers- since they can ultimately choose either one. I would also like to say that the part of me that liked making really big health totals as a knight, or seeing how high I could get the numbers on my katana to go, or things like that, is terribly, terribly jealous of excorable damage simply because it ultimately does more in PvP, and I simply won't have any access to it.
One idea I've been bouncing about in my head- I know there will be no exco/div runes, and that won't help anyone but knights and monks anyway. So I had a better idea. What if we had two artifacts, one for excorable, one for div, that cost about 1000 credits apiece, and would convert 50% of the users attack to exco or div?
Or if instead, a tunable artifact that could be set, say, once a month to a particular damage type- and would nullify up to say, a moderate resistance to that damage type, and reduce anything higher?
It would probably be much easier than the admin having to mollify whatever side feels screwed by the latest release.
Unknown2012-01-21 01:00:57
Rainydays:
What if we had two artifacts, one for excorable, one for div, that cost about 1000 credits apiece, and would convert 50% of the users attack to exco or div?
Or if instead, a tunable artifact that could be set, say, once a month to a particular damage type- and would nullify up to say, a moderate resistance to that damage type, and reduce anything higher?
Excoro and Div damage type converters are never going to happen, regardless of form. They don't want the "dark" factions having access to Divinus nor the "light" factions having access to Excoro.
I don't like the idea of having to pay credits to address an inequality that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Unknown2012-01-21 01:04:08
foolofsound:
I don't like the idea of having to pay credits to address an inequality that shouldn't exist in the first place.
The other bit I won't dispute or comment on, but this wouldn't be the first time for that sort of thing.
Malarious2012-01-21 06:41:45
Perhaps the first thing you should do Akui is check what the base damages are like. People really hype "better against players" but if better means it does 10% more damage, but it is 15-20% weaker than similar divinus attacks there is not really a difference worth noting. I would be interested if the admin could attest to how damaging such attacks are, like I believe radiance's base damage went down with the change... do the excorable attacks do comparable damage? more? etc. As it is let us be realistic in that if excorable becomes any sort of problem people will get DMP to it. Mobs do not have this option and will ALWAYS be weak, so we can balance that area far more readily.