It's obvious he would have taken it if he could since he displays quite the passion for this issue, and then you can make the assumption there were possibly other underlying concerns. I hounded him about taking envoy until I found out why he couldn't, and yes, I can't say why...

I didn't say it was just fixed, I said the nerfed it like 2-3 months back. It was something that needed to be done but at that time our envoy "Daevos" said they would be compensating for that... giving us another area to hit other than head and legs.

I did take the position as envoy, but for certain reasons at the time I had to decline it after taking it.

And I actually do alot to proactively address it, even the other day I asked if I could gain Geb-like envoy status to actually help some since what I read in the envoy wiki's, I have some input that I would like to make, but out of respect I would never edit the report and put my opinion in without permission. I was told by Estarra that she didnt need another Geb-like envoy, so I proactively address things where I can. Here and even tho you may not be aware. There are alot of envoy discussions on Bellator, aot of brainstorming and trying to see if something is too powerful or too weak before said envoy posts his idea in the wiki.

For complaining. Please don't go there, you were the first to want to nerf moondancers as soon as you became a mage. But as a moondancer you thought some skill "I can't remember which skill it was" was quite allright.

I have rallied behind the fix tracking, make necromancy viable for a warrior, make ghosts be able to climb from pits. Yes I have tried to contribute where I can.

It is quite clear that your "source" is not as respectable as you believe him or her to be.



It is highly suspicious in this situation how much of this "I heard , but I can't say who I heard it from/why it is that way/etc because of , but it must be true that there is a vast administrative conspiracy that reaches from the Producers down to the lowest Ephemerals to ruin warriors." In fact, I will call it patently ridiculous when examined from an objective viewpoint, and I think if you stop to consider what you are implying you will agree.

Here's the reason why your claims of conspiracy are ridiculous: 1. Lusternia is a business. Estarra and Roark's paychecks are based, in whole or in substantial part, on the credit sales that Lusternia makes. 2. It can be assumed that most players will want to play a viable and competitive archetype/skillchoice setup, and will be more inclined to spend credits on such an archetype/skill if it is viable and competitive. 3. It is therefore in the best monetary interests of Estarra and Roark to ensure that the archetypes remain viable and competitive. 4. Observably, Estarra and Roark care a great deal about archetype/skill viability given the extensive number of envoy reports that are processed, and the continuing ongoing dialogue between the administration and the envoys.

So, what you are suggesting in this vast conspiracy against warriors claim is that 1. Estarra/Roark care more about a vendetta against warriors (which, I might add, has no coherent or logical basis established) than they do about the overall health and success of Lusternia, which has a direct correlation with their paychecks and livelihood. 2. Estarra and Roark have gone to extreme lengths to conceal this vendetta against warriors, by creating fabricated systems like the envoys, and even asking for envoy reports, holding player summits, and holding lengthy and intelligent discussions with envoys regarding archetypes and skills. 3. You suggest, of course, that all this time and effort invested into these systems is actually a cover for the aforementioned vendetta against warriors, and Estarra and Roark secretly get their jollies in laughing maniacally at all the players who believe in this cover (except for you, who they rue for unravelling their true intent). 4. You also suggest that the entire Administration has been swayed into supporting this vile and vast conspiracy against warriors, including the entire volunteer staff. We are in fact lying to you when we say that your claims are baseless, and are part of the conspiracy. (Of course, since we are volunteers and have no monetary incentive to cover for Estarra and Roark, one would assume that one of us might have said something by now, so I'm wondering what sort of incredibly persuasive methods you are assuming Estarra and Roark use to win us over).

Does this situation still sound plausible to you?

I'll leave it up to Ildaudid then if he wants to reveal why he couldn't be envoy.

Of course it has no "logical basis established", because that is not exactly the issue that's being discussed. And I think it's clear to everyone Roark cares about warriors, and I don't think any believes Estarra is out to make warriors pathetic or useless. The issue is being placed on the back burner as new things are added to other archtypes (which are lovely, don't get me wrong), and whether or not changes were even allowed to be considered back then, like what, 6-10 months ago? It's nice to hear warriors are being worked on, but to be told to effectively to shut up about your concerns for your class when it is 'imbalanced'... a little more sympathy could be thrown their way or wouldn't hurt.

This is getting twisted into a "You don't do anything worth , admins" and I do believe they do lots lots lots and lots of work, and I do appreciate it. Everything from the signs pointing to key areas, to new emotes, to balanced changes (even if it means making my class a little less powerful), you have no idea how grateful I actually am. So much so you could say this game is so interesting for me I'm willing to blow some major bucks for it.

And yes, it is a business, it's nice knowing my concerns are a bunch of lies. I'm glad my business here has been appreciated so far. Sorry to sound so bitter and high-and-mighty, but everyone seems to be missing my main point, which is probably being lost in the other things I am saying.

But that issue was explained by Estarra two pages ago...

You should try playing Aetolia for a while, our players are too spoiled.

People are working on fixing what is wrong as fast as they can. Cracking a whip behind them is likely to give them LESS incentive to do what you want rather than learning this thing called "patience."

Try being in retail? Which I guess Lusternia is in some way...

What envoy told you about what Roark wants to do? Heck in all of my time being an envoy, I have never heard Roark say anything about wanting to impliment things, but being held back by the rest of the Admin.

I would remove Roark's name from your whole theory though. Roark tries his best and has been held back in the past due to the actions of other "official" divines. Ixion even stated something to that effect.

I think Roark does the best he can do, and his efforts are to be praised. For you to assume that I think Roark is purposely not doing certain things is silly.

Now I won't name my source strictly because of the respect I have, I am sure he/she has read this by now and is wanting to kick themself in the ass for ever telling me it in the first place. If I do name who told me this they will be kicked out of envoys. And the last thing I want is someone removed from envoys based on what he has told me. His interpretation could have been wrong when he told me "said" information. So to become a "rat" and say who told me this would go against everything I was raised by.

The information I heard was second hand from Roark to an envoy, then to me..... that could have been mixed up somehow. But the information from Roark directly to Ixion who stated so in the above posts would not be mixed up.


Yes Estarra and Roark make their income on credit sales. So with that being the case, wouldn't you agree that they should implement the things people see as problems? They should fix them?? As Daevos has stated a while back, once something in this game is implemented it is almost never taken out or redone. If there are said problems like this and the implementors refuse to fix them, aren't they hurting their source of income? I mean warriors are a great source of income for the paid implementors right now, most warriors rune their weapons and buy artifacts just to be able to deal with other classes. This being the case, when warriors repeatedly complain about some issue or another, they should be listened to since they are a large part of the playerbase who buy credits with OOC money.

Now, if I ran a buisness, and I made my money off said buisness. I would make sure all my customers were happy. If I had a client who invested lets say 10,000.00 into my buisness and one who invested 20.00 into my buisness, of course I would try to cater to them both equally. Since the 20.00 spender may end up being a 10,000.00 spender if he is treated properly.

I am not saying there is a conspiracy against warriors, but if there were it would be to keep them needing to purchase more credits to compete with non warriors. But I do not feel that is the case.

I feel that when one "divine" thinks that is the way something should be, the other divines have to abide by that and cannot even offer options opinions etc. This way of thinking may cause this branch of IRE to lose money. And that is the last thing Matt would want to see. If this place costs more to run it than it makes in profits, Lusternia will be shut down. So why not listen to the ideas that people have. Why not explain why they wont work? Why not try to support free-thinking and let Roark roll with his ideas? I mean when ideas come out, if they are overpowered they can be nerfed... and trust me we have envoys that will test these things and if they need nerfing they will be nerfed.

So basically, I never said there is a vendetta against warriors. I said that an envoy told me that Roark had ideas for two handers but was not allowed to implement them because another "divine" said they were perfectly balanced with BM's/BC's. So Morgfyre please re read what I said, never once did I say there is a vendetta against us. I said that there is a strange pattern on things relating to warriors. They seem to always be placed on the back burner, they are told one thing and then get half of that, they get nerfed and never really upgraded.... the only major upgrade was maneuvers and that seems to work well for 1 hand users but not well for 2 handed users.


I mean look at this: Feeble has been around forever and it still has no cure, it can take over 24 RL hours to wear off, it has been envoyed. Nothing has been fixed about it. Who does feeble effect mainly??? Warriors.


Now, remember this if you remember anything in this post. I have no problems with Roark. I think he is great and he does a great job. I don't want him reading this and all the other things you posted thinking my problem was with Roark at all.

Until you publically admit your source and this mystery can be cleared up, I'm calling bullshit. If you can't, stop posting.

Right now, by continuing to post you are essentially calling Estarra a liar. That part of me that has enjoyed this game so much for the last two years finds that -incredibly- offensive.

Shorlen, this is not in reference to you. And yes I have heard the word patience since Feburary/March... so yes I have been patient. I am one of the last remaining PB's in this game. Ciaran quit, then went Druid, now is a BM, Daevos went BM, Thorgal quit. Now there remainse 2 major PB's Geb and I. I have been patient and like I said you are doing a great job Shorlen. I would never want to "crack a whip" on your reports. I mean hell I asked to be a special envoy like Geb, but was rejected for it. Why would I do that if I didnt respect you all and want to help.

It just seems the only way I can help is by posting my concerns here. Since I cannot suggest ideas or explain why something may be OP if released in the envoys until AFTER they are released. This is my only form of communication with many of you about this.




If I reveal my source, they will be removed from envoys. I cannot do that to them. If they want to clear it up they can post here and say so.

In the meantime, ignore my source and use Ixion's example, in which he spoke directly to Roark about things.

I am not calling Estarra a liar, I am just saying what I have heard. If you would to call me a liar, that is fine. I am secure in saying I know what I was told. I am also secure in saying I may have misinterpreted it. But one thing I am not is a liar.

Now end the Estarra part of this, she asked me not to continue on with that part. So I will respect her wishes and do so.

I've never heard any comment from any admin, Roark, Estarra, or otherwise, that something regarding warriors couldn't be done because of other priorities. I haven't heard any envoy complain that warriors couldn't be done because of other priorities. (Compare this to the game-breaking state that Flow was in for over a month. ) I've seen ideas turned down because they weren't liked (from both sides--both admins and envoys have had ideas that the other group didn't like). I've seen the envoy channel go silent when warrior balancing comes up because there are just so few ideas that really get at the core of balancing an attrition-based offense with such variance in dps against the hallmark IRE affliction system. It's a crazy-huge, intricate issue.

You should also keep in mind that envoys act as filters. It's possible some of your ideas don't reach our ears. I can think of two separate issues in which someone proposed a ridiculous druid upgrade to me. Each time, I told the person I'd look into it, and then we shared a laugh at that person's expense on the envoy channel.

(Turn on timer, envoys What do you all think about upgrading sap?, Turn off timer. )

In other words, we have a car that needs to be fixed, it's a special car, it needs a certain mechanic on the job. Taxing a taxi back home from the mechanic’s while we wait for our car to be fixed we see 12 motorcycles get fixed and drive out. We assume that the special mechanic has put our car aside to work on the motorcycles, but in reality there are 12 motorcycle specialists who only have skill with motorcycles and not cars.

Lighten up people; don't assume the admin are secretly plotting against you, instead of working as hard as possible, as volunteers, no less, to help as much as possible.

I appreciate why you are frustrated and understand why you feel the way you do, even if I may have a very different viewpoint. May I respectfully suggest that when you present your viewpoint in an aggressive (and possibly offensive?) accusatory manner, it may have the opposite effect of what you want. I for one respond much better to considered, diplomatic presentations.

As an aside, I heard through the grapevine that there may have been rumours circulated through IRC and other venues by a disgruntled and bitter ex-staff member (who was fired for lying and covering up) telling horror stories about me and what goes on behind the scenes. All I can say is that, even if that person presents a charming facade, consider the source and the possibility that there may be other agendas involved.

If you aren't claiming there is some administrative conspiracy, then why do you seem to be unwilling or unable to accept that the administration are not somehow holding Roark back on anything, even after several members of the admin have replied, repeatedly, that this is not the case?

Do you believe that if Roark were somehow being repressed (unlikely in itself since he is just as much a producer as Estarra), that he is incapable of handling that sort of situation himself? That he couldn't talk to Matt, work it out with this mysterious divine overlord, or just overrule said mysterious divine overlord?

Roark works a great deal on warriors, as you have already seen - far more attention than almost any other archetype has received due to the complexity and unique nature of Lusternian warriors. Other coders work on other projects, and would be useless in helping him since with his in-depth warrior knowledge (and their lack of familiarity with that code and the associated learning curve) they would simply be in his way. We aren't going to halt other projects (which, again, Roark is not working on), including building projects, events, other coding projects, etcetera by creating artificial timetables of release. Estarra stated this several pages ago, and it makes perfect sense. These projects are released according to their own timetables and progress, which are independent of, and unrelated to, any warrior projects.

Your envoy source has obviously made an ass out of him or herself, and if their intent was not malicious - but instead ignorance, misrepresentation, or blind assumption - then I feel for them given the undoubtedly uncomfortable spotlight this issue has received. However, why do you feel the need to keep defending these accusations, Ildaudid? It's clear that they are baseless.

I'm sorry that you are upset with the warrior progress, but this administration works extremely hard to try and fix outstanding problems, create new content, and in general make Lusternia a fun and interesting place to be. If that is not evident to you, then I'm not sure what I, or any of the other admins, can do to make that more clear.

I'm sorry to say that, but sometimes it seems like Warriors are seriously spoiled.
They were getting the most attention ever since the beginning of Lusternia up to maybe half a year or 9 months ago, definitely more than other classes. Hell, you basically had your own coder (Roark) who was going out of his way to fix, tweak and twiddle with warriors combat. When everyone else had to wait for the envoy reports to being looked at (which was every 3 or 4 months), warriors could count on adressing their issues in the meantime.
You got Pureblade and Axelord specializations and Tracking skillsets, while for example guardians got only Astronomy.

God forbid though would you have to wait a little longer than usual for your changes.

Let me tell you: Nihilists have been waiting for any bigger changes for about a year (the fact that most of changes were general guardian ones and supposedly rendered Celestines overpowered is another matter).

Is it so hard to understand that every other class also has to be worked on, and that warriors don't always have to be the highest priority? Or that Lusternia needs to grow and areas need to be added? Or that there's a need for events to make things interesting for the majority of players who are not mainly focused on combat?

Thank you for understanding Estarra, I did not try to sound off being rude or aggressive, even tho it probably came out that way. I am horrible with wording my feelings in text form. I was just repeating what I had heard. And no I do not think this came from someone who hated you in the least. I just get frustrated when I like this game so much and seeing things fall through the cracks so many times. I sometimes feel that I have to voice things like this. The only way to get the cogs to move sometimes is to grease them. Consider me the grease. I love this place, I love the divine here. I just have feelings that alot of other warriors have about things. Unfortunately I am the only one who will speak up for them too.

Many thanks to all of you for making this a unique place, and I hope to be able to help with envoy implementations..... for now I will do it through here.... and maybe at somepoint I can gain the envoy status like another has.

I post my thoughts here because this is the only place I have a small voice in. Like I said I have asked for envoy status, and was denied. Maybe at some point I will gain it and be able to help in that manner. Morgfyre knows why I didn't take it for Ur'Guard. And right now we have a decent Ur'Guard envoy. But I would also like to be able to address things people may have over looked.

Anyways..... Estarra I am not trying to be rude to you I have much respect for you.



Take a poll of every combat active warrior, ask them how much OOC credits they have invested in the game to be able to fight a cosmic/mage/druid/whatever


Then take a poll of the cosmics/mages/druids/whatever


That should answer why warriors, try to get tweaked more, they invest more yet still have a hell of a time fighting your classes one on one.

Disclaimer: Not all warriors invest much, but if you look at the main warriors in this game who PvP they have a lot invested into their class.

I'm aware of that.
But I disagree with the notion that's intentional, and that seems to be what you're implying.

In fact, I would be really disappointed if it turned out to be true that warriors are meant to be a lure for credits. There's always a chance I might be wrong of course, but I think I recall administration agreeing with the (kinda obvious) statement that warriors should be competitive without the need of spending more credits than other classes. I'm talking about weapon runes here - I know that warriors skills investment is also one of the highest, but that's how it is - different classes have different requirements skill-wise to achieve the same combat proficiency level, it's not just warriors issue.
I imagine it's just hard to balance the runes.

I am sorry, I did not mean to imply it was intentional. It is just a fact of life as a warrior in Lusty at the moment.