ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Ixion2006-11-21 17:25:43
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Nov 21 2006, 12:25 PM) 355754

Out of interest, where does this belief that Roark is 'held back' by the other admin, or that 'he can't always do what he wants' come from? This rather peculiar image that poor Roark is locked in the basement and the other Divine scream commands at him and beat him if he doesn't work hard enough.

Ildaudid, the way you phrased your sentence was noteworthy: "he has been held back by certain divine for quite some time". You strongly imply that you know more than you have put here, in which case, spill. Let's all hear it. Who is this godly spanner in the works? I'm curious.

Of course, if it's all just speculation or invention.. then perhaps you should saying it?


Because it's happened in the past, by his own admission. This could mean once or it could mean many times, but things that have happened before have a decent chance of doing so again.
Estarra2006-11-21 17:29:49
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 08:46 AM) 355737

The problem I see is that as soon as this new stuff comes out, Roark and his work is put on the back burner again. I know Roark is the best coder for balancing out warrior issues, and he has been held back by certain divine for quite some time. Yes he hasn't been able to do some of the things he wanted to get done some months ago because he was told not to.


Er, I have no idea where you are getting your information but it is patently false. Roark hasn't been held back at all. He has a pretty free hand on warriors and I almost always defer to him on warrior matters.

Where are you getting these lies?

QUOTE(Ixion @ Nov 21 2006, 09:25 AM) 355755

Because it's happened in the past, by his own admission. This could mean once or it could mean many times, but things that have happened before have a decent chance of doing so again.


Then you must have misunderstood him.
Daganev2006-11-21 17:29:49
I've been under the impression that things he has wanted to do but wasn't able to was because of bigger issues and the time needed to them versus work on other things.

Ildaudid2006-11-21 17:29:56
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 21 2006, 12:13 PM) 355747

Ahhh

Yeah, I got tracking for the wolf, then I found out you're supposed to get it for the traps, and the wolf is just flavor that was overpowered. So they made it more flavor and less power. I blame the envoys at the time for that because they were all against tracking and made changes to nerf trackers since they thought they were too overpowered. And instead of suggesting one change they suggested like 10. It was a low point of envoy history.

tracking was made to be less desirable than your other skillset, and instead intended for people who would be switching cities often, so they didn't have to worry about being in a specific warrior guild or not.

As for pureblades, it seems like they are focused on them right now. They have been planning the nexus worlds for quite a long time, if you look at the dates on the threads there. And lets not forget all the pureblades out there who have been hacking off peoples heads super quickly, so they had to change that. Its been a balancing act.
The attention was before your time I guess. Roark used to come down to the Ur'guard guildhall and ask us about anything we needed changing for warriors, and then like two days later the change would be in.


Yeah assault was way too powerful and needed to be nerfed, but right when they nerfed it, they said there would be upgrades added to it to compensate for the loss. They had a warrior envoy about 3 MONTHS later that didnt address a single 2hander issue. Next everyone knows tracking sucks, screw the hound, I mean the skill set. So they made an envoy for it. They came up with some great useful skills, everyone seemed happy... But what they did first was nerf pits, then say they would implement the updates.... which they only updated scaling time/swiftswim/and actually make deadfall work. I was told by another envoy "a special envoy" that they would be doing nothing else to tracking. Now they have this PB/AL envoy which was submitted, then had to be rejected and resubmitted. (This envoy should have occured 3 months ago with the other warriors, but hey)


Roark is a coding god, and I have much love for him. And when I have bitched about warriors, since no one else will say shit about them. People bring up Ixion and his swords.... well his swords are no more. I was told by one envoy who always talks with Roark that he had many ideas for 2handers but he was not allowed to code them due to some divine telling him not to, that PB/AL are perfectly balanced.... so if they were perfectly balanced 2 months ago why all of the sudden an envoy on them??

QUOTE(Ixion @ Nov 21 2006, 12:14 PM) 355748

Roark is awesome, too bad he can't always do what he wants with warriors! biggrin.gif


Exactly Ixion, he is held back but some people, and I am betting Matt isn't one of them. Warriors are the only class right now that seem to need to have artifacts, etc to even stand a chance against a tri trans Cosmic with Trueheal. But of course... I am too skeptical now, I can just forsee all the work Shorlen is doing for PB/AL's being accepted then getting the envoy newspost saying we changed our minds....


All my wub.gif to Roark, the man with ideas and the skills to actually accomplish them, please unchain him from the cellar and let him sit at a computer for a few hours blush.gif
Estarra2006-11-21 17:30:11
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 21 2006, 09:29 AM) 355760

I've been under the impression that things he has wanted to do but wasn't able to was because of bigger issues and the time needed to them versus work on other things.


What issues are you talking about?
Ildaudid2006-11-21 17:31:10
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 21 2006, 12:29 PM) 355759

Er, I have no idea where you are getting your information but it is patently false. Roark hasn't been held back at all. He has a pretty free hand on warriors and I almost always defer to him on warrior matters.

Where are you getting these lies?
Then you must have misunderstood him.


We got these lies from some of the envoys, and no I don't mean Daevos.
Aiakon2006-11-21 17:31:53
QUOTE(Ixion @ Nov 21 2006, 05:25 PM) 355755

Because it's happened in the past, by his own admission. This could mean once or it could mean many times, but things that have happened before have a decent chance of doing so again.


I only ask, because straightening out your weaponry seems to me to be a thoroughly boring and thankless job. Inevitably you'll all moan. Either: it's not fair the axelords are over powered, and I'm a pureblade... or even though my class has been improved Narsrim still beats me, we must be underpowered..

Frankly, if I was him, I wouldn't bother. And the extraordinary thing is, he seems to bother. There have been loads of envoy changes and balances for the Warriors recently. Perhaps not as many quantifiable cosmetic changes, but big underlying changes that presumably take much more work to implement.
Estarra2006-11-21 17:32:12
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 09:29 AM) 355761

I was told by one envoy who always talks with Roark that he had many ideas for 2handers but he was not allowed to code them due to some divine telling him not to, that PB/AL are perfectly balanced.... so if they were perfectly balanced 2 months ago why all of the sudden an envoy on them??


I'll say this again for emphasis, either what Roark said was misunderstood or this is a complete fabrication.
Daganev2006-11-21 17:34:02
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 09:29 AM) 355761


Exactly Ixion, he is held back but some people, and I am betting Matt isn't one of them. Warriors are the only class right now that seem to need to have artifacts, etc to even stand a chance against a tri trans Cosmic with Trueheal. But of course... I am too skeptical now, I can just forsee all the work Shorlen is doing for PB/AL's being accepted then getting the envoy newspost saying we changed our minds....


Thats has been true since day one. Warriors have always needed artifacts and many more skills than other archytypes to fight against anyone good. There are tons of ways of reducing warriors attacks which makes them need to be at the max limit , and there are tons of ways of reducing warriors attacks because people are able to put warriors at the max limit. Its all chicken egg stuff.
Unknown2006-11-21 17:34:37
From what we see with respect to warriors' offense and defense, you have to imagine that this is perhaps the single-most complex bit of code in the entire game. Those messages and formulas take a lot into consideration, and I am impressed at what they've managed to achieve here. You can't expect Roark to change the formulas and modify the afflictions on a whim.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 17:38:14
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 21 2006, 12:32 PM) 355765

I'll say this again for emphasis, either what Roark said was misunderstood or this is a complete fabrication.


Well since this person is not one to lie, I would say that it could have been misunderstanding, but I hounded this envoy relentlessly about this during the maneuver era of Roark's coding, and was repeatedly told that "roark" was told 2handers are balanced and need no work at this time.

Daganev2006-11-21 17:40:29
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 21 2006, 09:30 AM) 355762

What issues are you talking about?


I vaguely remember some comment like, I had this really cool idea but it would have required more time than it was worth. And the idea was never specified.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 17:41:09
QUOTE(Zarquan @ Nov 21 2006, 12:34 PM) 355767

From what we see with respect to warriors' offense and defense, you have to imagine that this is perhaps the single-most complex bit of code in the entire game. Those messages and formulas take a lot into consideration, and I am impressed at what they've managed to achieve here. You can't expect Roark to change the formulas and modify the afflictions on a whim.


Of course it is extremely complex, but give the man free reign. Let him do what he wants over time, let him update the warrior guilds with what his plans are... don't hold the man back. He is a coding genius and probably one of the only ones who can make chicken salad out of chicken shit. So if it takes time to do so fine, but when we here he cannot implement things, that slows the process even more.
Reiha2006-11-21 17:42:41
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Nov 21 2006, 09:31 AM) 355764

Frankly, if I was him, I wouldn't bother. And the extraordinary thing is, he seems to bother. There have been loads of envoy changes and balances for the Warriors recently. Perhaps not as many quantifiable cosmetic changes, but big underlying changes that presumably take much more work to implement.

I think the issue is more how long it took for him to be allowed to work on anything or implement anything.
Estarra2006-11-21 17:43:14
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 09:41 AM) 355770

So if it takes time to do so fine, but when we here he cannot implement things, that slows the process even more.


Just stop it, Ildaudid. He has a very free hand with warriors and no one is "holding him back" or telling him he can't implement things.

Don't feed these false rumours, please.
Daganev2006-11-21 17:44:58
When a coder says its going to take too much time, it means they don't think it worth the effort... at least thats the way it is where I work. It doesn't mean that they would do it if they were given more time.
Sylphas2006-11-21 17:46:06
Warriors take a lot of credits to get over all the anti-warrior defenses, which all take a lot of credits to get.
Narsrim2006-11-21 18:01:00
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 12:29 PM) 355761

Yeah assault was way too powerful and needed to be nerfed, but right when they nerfed it, they said there would be upgrades added to it to compensate for the loss. They had a warrior envoy about 3 MONTHS later that didnt address a single 2hander issue. Next everyone knows tracking sucks, screw the hound, I mean the skill set. So they made an envoy for it. They came up with some great useful skills, everyone seemed happy... But what they did first was nerf pits, then say they would implement the updates.... which they only updated scaling time/swiftswim/and actually make deadfall work. I was told by another envoy "a special envoy" that they would be doing nothing else to tracking. Now they have this PB/AL envoy which was submitted, then had to be rejected and resubmitted. (This envoy should have occured 3 months ago with the other warriors, but hey)


Your concept of time is rather botched. Assault was no more "just fixed" than anything else. I was 2-hit beheaded for about 2-3 irl months. What suggestions do you make to your envoy? What ideas and such are you providing? For quite a while, the Ur'guard had no active envoy. Why didn't you take the position?

For someone who likes to complain, you seem to do as little as possible to proactively address it - other than post on forums, of course.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 18:03:04
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Nov 21 2006, 12:46 PM) 355775

Warriors take a lot of credits to get over all the anti-warrior defenses, which all take a lot of credits to get.


Quoted for truth.



And Estarra I will stop speaking of that issue, but please don't think I just randomly made that up. I am not that kind of person at all. I also do not want to get anyone in trouble who said this to me, since he is highly respectable by all members of the basin, divine included.
Daganev2006-11-21 18:04:56
If there is a skillset to complain about... I think Riding would be higher up on the list. Fain once wrote a post saying they wanted to re-write it... I think it was in December of 04 tongue.gif