ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2006-11-20 08:41:27
Bards are still new, in coding terms. Give them a break. We should all be grateful they've managed to get Nexus Worlds done so quickly after they were suggested (unless they had thought of it before we did anyway. Bah, we should still be grateful tongue.gif) and that they have managed to get Aethercraft Specs done, and that we have a whole new archetype, and two brand new areas. divlove.gif
Ildaudid2006-11-20 08:51:07
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Nov 19 2006, 10:07 PM) 355223

Smudges not working in trees were a major issue to druids.
Warrior lunge/crushes not costing power on a miss WAS envoyed, but were not added (yet?).
The Tetrodin change was a major issue to druids.
PB/AL balances is a major issue that is still being worked on.

Don't say we aren't touching major issues - say instead we aren't fixing them fast enough to please you or in ways that would overpower you, if one of them is actually the case.



You arent doing anything to please warriors in general fast enough. Yes bards need work. Warriors need to be balanced, and its not your fault Shorlen, you and Anja are working on it... it just sucks to see all this new censor.gif added when major issues are still not fixed.... I mean for censor.gif sake, fix whats broke dont make new censor.gif that will break down....


Finish the PB/AL envoy and implement it.

Fix the traps bug.

Implement the Tracking envoy.

Deal with Aquamancer demesnes.

Decide if bards are support or if they are a class who can stand on their own... then make them work right.

Figure out why Celestines are the most powerful class in the game..... and balance them

THEN make a whole new plane of existance with its own tweaks and bugs

edit - I mean this happens all the time, something new is released while everything else is in need of work, its like taking your dog to get his nails clipped when he has mange.... cure the mange then fix the damn nails....

/rant
Hiriako2006-11-20 12:48:40
Ildaudid, different people work on different things. I assure you, warrior issues are being looked at, I tend to talk to Shorlen almost on a daily basis in regards to them. Just because you have envoy complaints doesn't mean that every single other guild doesn't too.

Wish I had thought of Sporelist back when I was MD Envoy though, that's a nice one. Wish I had it!
Sylphas2006-11-20 13:17:35
Hyperactive needs totally scrapped and a new skill implemented. Springup needs changed to work off-eq, or if that's overpowered, something entirely different as well. It pisses me off that Acrobatics caters only to Tarot bards. Also, why doesn't Soulless use balance, like other Tarot skills?
Unknown2006-11-20 13:49:13
So basically we learned today that everyone is underpowered, and we're all pissed about it.

Now that we have that out of our systems, who (besides Sylphas and the Envoys) has some helpful suggestions?
Shorlen2006-11-20 14:21:44
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Nov 20 2006, 08:17 AM) 355316
Hyperactive needs totally scrapped and a new skill implemented. Springup needs changed to work off-eq, or if that's overpowered, something entirely different as well. It pisses me off that Acrobatics caters only to Tarot bards. Also, why doesn't Soulless use balance, like other Tarot skills?

I'm told that rubbing soulless is eq, and that hyperactive would be overpowered for tarot if it effected eq too because of that. I wouldn't know, not having ever had tarot. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is letting someone get enough soulless rubs on me, and then just escaping when they try to throw - I've never died to soulless yet (well, not since I made an echo for it) tongue.gif

Springup really needs changing, yes. The rest... talk to your envoys, dang it. The rest of us don't know your skills tongue.gif My mini-report slots are going to be filled with runes upgrades anyway sad.gif

EDIT: Well, until Estarra yells at me for suggesting a new runes skill EVERY month dry.gif
Unknown2006-11-20 15:58:05
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Nov 19 2006, 10:33 PM) 355270

If you want to see more, get your envoys to be more proactive about issues in acrobatics and music. Attempts to change how deafness works have been largely ignored, as noone has had enough experience fighting competant bards who know their skills yet to know what deafness changes are fair.


Our envoy is retiring, or at least so I'm told. I think it changes from day to day. Sometimes she's retiring due to inactivity sometimes she's not! Aia's telling me I'm replacing, she told me she was stepping down, and just last night I got a message requesting I write up an analysis so she can submit it. So who knows what the story is anymore. I'll write up an analysis but I'm skeptical it'll ever see the light of day.

As much as I'd like to "get (our) envoys to be more proactive", I have no way to do so.

As to your latter part, not so much. I know enough about bards to know not to use Necroscream, for example. I've done enough fighting as a bard to be in a decent position to comment on any potential changes to deafness, but I'm not the envoy. And our envoy doesn't tell me anything.

Joy?
Estarra2006-11-20 16:59:55
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 20 2006, 12:51 AM) 355290

You arent doing anything to please warriors in general fast enough. Yes bards need work. Warriors need to be balanced, and its not your fault Shorlen, you and Anja are working on it... it just sucks to see all this new censor.gif added when major issues are still not fixed.... I mean for censor.gif sake, fix whats broke dont make new censor.gif that will break down....
Finish the PB/AL envoy and implement it.


You've been told that the special PB/AL report has been submitted and Roark has been working on it for over a week now. It'll be released when it's ready.

This doesn't prevent other coders to work on other things in the meantime. (And, no, it won't help to try to have those coders help him.)

Your attitude of "warriors need help and the world should come to a screaming halt until it's done" is really amazing.
Unknown2006-11-20 21:08:58
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 20 2006, 10:59 AM) 355367

You've been told that the special PB/AL report has been submitted and Roark has been working on it for over a week now. It'll be released when it's ready.

This doesn't prevent other coders to work on other things in the meantime. (And, no, it won't help to try to have those coders help him.)

Your attitude of "warriors need help and the world should come to a screaming halt until it's done" is really amazing.


clap_1.gif

That's all I have to say about that.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 16:22:38
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 20 2006, 11:59 AM) 355367

You've been told that the special PB/AL report has been submitted and Roark has been working on it for over a week now. It'll be released when it's ready.

This doesn't prevent other coders to work on other things in the meantime. (And, no, it won't help to try to have those coders help him.)

Your attitude of "warriors need help and the world should come to a screaming halt until it's done" is really amazing.


Put it this way if the firing pin on my gun was broken, would I install a new barrel before fixing the firing pin? That hopefully will put it in terms for people to actually understand. Because that is what seems to be happening.

clap_1.gif
Unknown2006-11-21 16:35:55
Conversely, to put it in terms you can understand: if my car makes a horrible noise, I assume my serpentine belt needs to be replaced. I take it to the garage, however, and they end up replacing my water pump. In other words, trust the mechanic's judgment more than your own.
Aiakon2006-11-21 16:37:34
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 04:22 PM) 355730

Put it this way if the firing pin on my gun was broken, would I install a new barrel before fixing the firing pin? That hopefully will put it in terms for people to actually understand. Because that is what seems to be happening.

clap_1.gif


That is not an apt analogy. Did you read Estarra's post?

What Estarra said was that Roark was working on Warriors. She explained that it would not be efficient to assign a second coder to that job - too many cooks spoil the broth. She explained that therefore the other coders would continue to pursue other coding jobs. She explained that this meant that other developments might emerge before the warrior changes, but this did not mean that warriors were not being dealt with, and it did not mean that they were not being dealt with as quickly as possible.

To summarise: take a can of Murphy and stop needlessly harassing the admin.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 16:46:53
Everything has been coming before warrior changes though, (and if you think a horrible noise is coming from your car it isn't going to be a serp belt trust me). The problem I see is that as soon as this new stuff comes out, Roark and his work is put on the back burner again. I know Roark is the best coder for balancing out warrior issues, and he has been held back by certain divine for quite some time. Yes he hasn't been able to do some of the things he wanted to get done some months ago because he was told not to.

I just sit and watch everything under the sun get beefed, get nerfed, get added... then one day we are told tracking will be updated..... even a special envoy....... we get all excited.... We weren't even mad when the nerfed pits because in 14 days from then we were going to have a mess load of upgrades. 7 days pass we get 2 upgrades. Things are going well.... 25 days pass, we still get none of the others.... then are told that they decided not to.... now they are going to work on PB/AL things.... like they were supposed to when they nerfed assault back in January. They make a special envoy again.... I am just one of those once bitten twice shy guys.... I guess....
Reiha2006-11-21 16:51:06
I'm probably biased (for obvious reasons tongue.gif), but as a customer, I think his complaints are valid... I've seen him drop/switch skills because his current one was limiting, only to get find himself getting nerfed. Who wouldn't be upset. We've both spent credits on his character to help him be a decently balanced PB, which needs more credits to be decently powerful than a mage would, who can survive without buying too many credits to trans skills/artifacts.

Your attitude of "warriors need help and the world should come to a screaming halt until it's done" is really amazing.... yes, his pestering may grate on your nerves, I know he drives me crazy, but I've had customers say and do worse. That comment was a bit rude, although reserved and politely termed it was.

I hate myself for saying this since I hate hearing it, but... I was about to dish out $1400 bucks to spend on me and him, but I think I will consider spending that elsewhere. While every coder should not drop everything to attend to warrior's needs, and coders do not need to kiss the player's censor.gif , you have to admit it's been almost a year's worth of delays or further imbalanced changes. Things can happen and not according to plan, but how can you not expect him not to be mad.

See you all later, I will play again eventually but this is pissing me off personally, though I don't harbour hatred towards anyone, I'm just not fond of what's going on. Well, I might have cooled off in week's time and I'm probably going to regeret what some of I've said and going to say: but right now... afraid the Geos will be without a GM for a while. Take care.
Daganev2006-11-21 16:55:32
Whoah... Warriors have gotten the most attention of any of the classes. Its insane how much attention they give us, I got spoiled at one point thinking that Roark was my personal "explain warrior stuff to me" person. Cause they were doing that so much.

QUOTE(Reiha @ Nov 21 2006, 08:51 AM) 355741

I'm probably biased (for obvious reasons tongue.gif), but as a customer, I think his complaints are valid... I've seen him drop/switch skills because his current one was limiting, only to get find himself getting nerfed.



That right there is the problem. No class is supposed to be so obviously overpowered than others that you want to just switch to that guild for the skills alone.

You are supposed to switch classes and guilds for many reasons, but because the other skills are better isn't one of them, because eventually your skills will be just as good.
Ildaudid2006-11-21 17:00:40
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 21 2006, 11:55 AM) 355742

Whoah... Warriors have gotten the most attention of any of the classes. Its insane how much attention they give us, I got spoiled at one point thinking that Roark was my personal "explain warrior stuff to me" person. Cause they were doing that so much.
That right there is the problem. No class is supposed to be so obviously overpowered than others that you want to just switch to that guild for the skills alone.

You are supposed to switch classes and guilds for many reasons, but because the other skills are better isn't one of them, because eventually your skills will be just as good.



Son, I have never left the Ur'Guard, she is referring to moving from necromancy to tracking. And to watch tracking get nerfed. I have stuck with PB the whole time also and never switched that. I have faith in Roark, but I have been told by envoys other divines have held him back. And do tell all the attention we have gotten besides nerfs and maneuvers in the past 6 months?
Reiha2006-11-21 17:01:08
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 21 2006, 08:55 AM) 355742

Whoah... Warriors have gotten the most attention of any of the classes. Its insane how much attention they give us, I got spoiled at one point thinking that Roark was my personal "explain warrior stuff to me" person. Cause they were doing that so much.
That right there is the problem. No class is supposed to be so obviously overpowered than others that you want to just switch to that guild for the skills alone.

You are supposed to switch classes and guilds for many reasons, but because the other skills are better isn't one of them, because eventually your skills will be just as good.

Attention is one thing, being able to implement some coding another.

As for your other comment, I don't feel like using the energy to explain what I meant.
Daganev2006-11-21 17:13:22
Ahhh

Yeah, I got tracking for the wolf, then I found out you're supposed to get it for the traps, and the wolf is just flavor that was overpowered. So they made it more flavor and less power. I blame the envoys at the time for that because they were all against tracking and made changes to nerf trackers since they thought they were too overpowered. And instead of suggesting one change they suggested like 10. It was a low point of envoy history.

tracking was made to be less desirable than your other skillset, and instead intended for people who would be switching cities often, so they didn't have to worry about being in a specific warrior guild or not.

As for pureblades, it seems like they are focused on them right now. They have been planning the nexus worlds for quite a long time, if you look at the dates on the threads there. And lets not forget all the pureblades out there who have been hacking off peoples heads super quickly, so they had to change that. Its been a balancing act.

QUOTE(Reiha @ Nov 21 2006, 09:01 AM) 355745

Attention is one thing, being able to implement some coding another.

As for your other comment, I don't feel like using the energy to explain what I meant.


The attention was before your time I guess. Roark used to come down to the Ur'guard guildhall and ask us about anything we needed changing for warriors, and then like two days later the change would be in.
Ixion2006-11-21 17:14:53
Roark is awesome, too bad he can't always do what he wants with warriors! biggrin.gif
Aiakon2006-11-21 17:25:07
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Nov 21 2006, 04:46 PM) 355737

Everything has been coming before warrior changes though, (and if you think a horrible noise is coming from your car it isn't going to be a serp belt trust me). The problem I see is that as soon as this new stuff comes out, Roark and his work is put on the back burner again. I know Roark is the best coder for balancing out warrior issues, and he has been held back by certain divine for quite some time. Yes he hasn't been able to do some of the things he wanted to get done some months ago because he was told not to.


QUOTE(Ixion @ Nov 21 2006, 05:14 PM) 355748

Roark is awesome, too bad he can't always do what he wants with warriors! biggrin.gif


Out of interest, where does this belief that Roark is 'held back' by the other admin, or that 'he can't always do what he wants' come from? What is the origin of this rather peculiar image of poor Roark locked in the basement while the other Divine scream commands at him and beat him if he doesn't work hard enough.

Ildaudid, the way you phrased your sentence was noteworthy: "he has been held back by certain divine for quite some time". You strongly imply that you know more than you have put here, in which case, spill. Let's all hear it. Who is this godly spanner in the works? I'm curious.

Of course, if it's all just speculation or invention.. then perhaps you should stop saying it?