QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 17 2008, 11:46 AM) 477756
A parable/story: (names of archetypes of have been changed to protect the innocent*)
It used to be that there was this one archetype, called knights that was able to do lots of damage. i.e. in the 2000 range (maximum). Then they got nerfed so that the most damage they ever seem able to do is 1200.
Go Axelord?
Then comes a new archetype, called minstrels , and they were pathetic, and then they were upgraded so that without much investment into the skill they can do 1000 damage. While the knights found themselves switching to become speed knights instead of damage knights because damage wasn't high enough to be worth it, and the only viable kills were with speed and afflictions.
Speed = wounds/damage per second.. speed > flat wounds SO LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOME.
Then they made a new archetype, called samurais , and they were able to make everyone cry with thier versatility and killing potential with little effort.
Now that two archetypes outperform the first archetype, instead of wasting time trying to fix TWO things, we can just upgrade one small tiny itsy bitsy archetype and make their large artifact investment something to be worried about, instead of something needed to minimally compete
*Any similarities to names of real archetypes is purely coincidental.
It used to be that there was this one archetype, called knights that was able to do lots of damage. i.e. in the 2000 range (maximum). Then they got nerfed so that the most damage they ever seem able to do is 1200.
Go Axelord?
Then comes a new archetype, called minstrels , and they were pathetic, and then they were upgraded so that without much investment into the skill they can do 1000 damage. While the knights found themselves switching to become speed knights instead of damage knights because damage wasn't high enough to be worth it, and the only viable kills were with speed and afflictions.
Speed = wounds/damage per second.. speed > flat wounds SO LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOME.
Then they made a new archetype, called samurais , and they were able to make everyone cry with thier versatility and killing potential with little effort.
Now that two archetypes outperform the first archetype, instead of wasting time trying to fix TWO things, we can just upgrade one small tiny itsy bitsy archetype and make their large artifact investment something to be worried about, instead of something needed to minimally compete
*Any similarities to names of real archetypes is purely coincidental.
Now you have brought forth the power of the 'Cultists'!
See they had cultists.. and cultists relied on aeon, and afflictions.
Then comes minstrels who can outdamage and in some cases out afflict cultists.
Then comes samurai who can out afflict easily (wound type affs + venoms + kick effect + mods) and do more damage.
Clearly the solution to the situation is to drop afflictions rates on those guilds or hey lets try saying
the concept of affliction stacking kills. Aeon like sap (I feel for you Xavius 
) is curable. Aslaran are every 3.2 seconds.. you can cure anorexia and aeon or even aeon, impatience, and anorexia faster than that. By perfect curing standards afflictions need to stick before you even get to that point then aeon needs to hit when anorexia and impatience are given (rely on tail and curse scroll anyone?). Presuming you are tarot, astro is a little better off if you have aeon available.Nihilist fixers:
Remove:
-Aeon
-Demon?
(you dont need a demon so much if you arent sticking aeon)Add:
-Passive afflicting on tic
-Passive damage/bleeding/drain on tic
-Various skills to provide some entertainment (like delayed time attacks, insta kills, symbol, etc)
Or to shorten it up.. balance them without aeon since its a pain in the arse to balance TO aeon as you would have to speed up skill speed to pace with curing :/ which is problematic in itself. Bards are kind of like what Aff classes shoulda been if we werent aeon based.
@Bianca: I agree. Caco hunger is kind of dumb because food counters the long term goal.. metawake screwed with spiritsingers.. however harbingers can do some things with bleeding and it drains willpower for long term attrition. Cantors are nice for damage and the songs can play with people too.
@Someone: You can actually be a fairly good warrior without runes for weapons as a titan/demi.. since your str and dex are high enough for rather nice wounding even without rune. Yes runes help specially with other warriors, but they arent so much required when you get +2/+3 to str (no I dont mean power/toughness!).
Even back when precision was accuracy an aslaran could work fairly well because of the rate at which you could afflict (venom + wound aff) which allowed up to 4 affs every 3 or so seconds or set of swings.
There were more things I wanted to say but I forgot em.. I will prolly head off to bed soon.
QUOTE(Malarious @ Jan 17 2008, 11:18 PM) 477993
Clearly the solution to the situation is to drop afflictions rates on those guilds or hey lets try saying the concept of affliction stacking kills. Aeon like sap (I feel for you Xavius ) is curable.
the concept of affliction stacking kills. Aeon like sap (I feel for you Xavius ) is curable.I think you misunderstand me.
I don't regard druids as underpowered. I regard druids as linear, inflexible, limited, and poorly scaling. An awesome druid is not that much better than a moderately talented druid with some practice and experience. A poor to slightly above average curer dies in a hurry to sap timed with the demesne. A moderately above average curer may or may not die, depending on the skill of the druid. People who've got sap curing down to a science don't die to druids because they really don't have an alternative to work with. The issue isn't that sap can be cured, the issue is that there's only one thing to try and no improvements can be made to it, unless you're a dreamweaver trying sleep attrition. An artied out druid does not magically become viable out of demesne. However, I think most upgrades that would allow druids to expand beyond their niche would...well, would make them as powerful as monks or bards, and I've been generally trying to avoid that.
QUOTE(Xavius @ Jan 18 2008, 12:21 AM) 478004
I think you misunderstand me.
I don't regard druids as underpowered. I regard druids as linear, inflexible, limited, and poorly scaling. An awesome druid is not that much better than a moderately talented druid with some practice and experience. A poor to slightly above average curer dies in a hurry to sap timed with the demesne. A moderately above average curer may or may not die, depending on the skill of the druid. People who've got sap curing down to a science don't die to druids because they really don't have an alternative to work with. The issue isn't that sap can be cured, the issue is that there's only one thing to try and no improvements can be made to it, unless you're a dreamweaver trying sleep attrition. An artied out druid does not magically become viable out of demesne. However, I think most upgrades that would allow druids to expand beyond their niche would...well, would make them as powerful as monks or bards, and I've been generally trying to avoid that.
I don't regard druids as underpowered. I regard druids as linear, inflexible, limited, and poorly scaling. An awesome druid is not that much better than a moderately talented druid with some practice and experience. A poor to slightly above average curer dies in a hurry to sap timed with the demesne. A moderately above average curer may or may not die, depending on the skill of the druid. People who've got sap curing down to a science don't die to druids because they really don't have an alternative to work with. The issue isn't that sap can be cured, the issue is that there's only one thing to try and no improvements can be made to it, unless you're a dreamweaver trying sleep attrition. An artied out druid does not magically become viable out of demesne. However, I think most upgrades that would allow druids to expand beyond their niche would...well, would make them as powerful as monks or bards, and I've been generally trying to avoid that.
Druid > Bard
I loved druid, I would have stayed with druid if I didn't dislike the people in the BT so much (I'm sure the feelings were mostly mutual). Druid is an amazing class with so many possibilities. Mugwump dreamweaver druid was just fun. Limited in the fact that you need sap, perhaps, but FUN. Sap is stickable even on top notch curers if you play around with it. Of course, I'm speaking strictly from Dreamweaver mugwump. Passive blacklung and paralysis with active epilepsy, narcolepsy, daydreaming and the longest blackout in the game and cudgel for stun? Man, that class was just full of possibilities. I think you are too stuck on runes, maybe? Mugwump dreamweaver really is terrifying. I suggest anyone fight alianna 1v1, she's scary.
@malarious: You and your Nihilist promoting. SHAMELESS!
QUOTE(Xavius @ Jan 18 2008, 01:21 AM) 478004
I think you misunderstand me.
I don't regard druids as underpowered. I regard druids as linear, inflexible, limited, and poorly scaling. An awesome druid is not that much better than a moderately talented druid with some practice and experience. A poor to slightly above average curer dies in a hurry to sap timed with the demesne. A moderately above average curer may or may not die, depending on the skill of the druid. People who've got sap curing down to a science don't die to druids because they really don't have an alternative to work with. The issue isn't that sap can be cured, the issue is that there's only one thing to try and no improvements can be made to it, unless you're a dreamweaver trying sleep attrition. An artied out druid does not magically become viable out of demesne. However, I think most upgrades that would allow druids to expand beyond their niche would...well, would make them as powerful as monks or bards, and I've been generally trying to avoid that.
I don't regard druids as underpowered. I regard druids as linear, inflexible, limited, and poorly scaling. An awesome druid is not that much better than a moderately talented druid with some practice and experience. A poor to slightly above average curer dies in a hurry to sap timed with the demesne. A moderately above average curer may or may not die, depending on the skill of the druid. People who've got sap curing down to a science don't die to druids because they really don't have an alternative to work with. The issue isn't that sap can be cured, the issue is that there's only one thing to try and no improvements can be made to it, unless you're a dreamweaver trying sleep attrition. An artied out druid does not magically become viable out of demesne. However, I think most upgrades that would allow druids to expand beyond their niche would...well, would make them as powerful as monks or bards, and I've been generally trying to avoid that.
That sounds alot like aeon reliance to me
People who cure aeon to a science will outpace you unless you stick affs they dont see. So sub in aeon for sap in that above and your still pretty right :/We dont have passive stfuf to stop aeon other than anorexia and things to go on top (no narc, blacklung, stuns, or such things reliably and well IF we even get bal back.
@Bianca: CLearly your misinformed, I just stated how reliant on one skill they are and how they need changes.. minor might be some to speed them up or help with afflicting to stick aeon.. major would be removing aeon as a reliance entirely (I think majority if the guild might be okay with that :/ why give yourself aeon reliance given the option to do fine without it). I was more promoting my ideas as given to some select few people who decived the skillset
That is... I promoted my fix plan.. and in general said Nihilist combat is unreliable because it all revolves around 1 aff and isnt as hard to cure as sap (sip vs cleanse.... shackles paralysis scabies epilepsy? It might be easier for us to sap than aeon
)
Bleeding: still does damage. Drains mana for clot
Metawake: Huge mana drain. Can be forced off
damage: Uh..damage.
Hunger: Does nothing if you know it's coming.
Stfu please.
