BTW:

+ Bonecrusher has a new ability: crush windpipe. It is cured by arnica
or myrtle.


how is that like slitlock? and is it apply arnica head? or eat arnica? I know you can't drink with a crushed windpipe, so I guess that would be like slitthroat, so stacked with senso, could still smoke out of it right?

Sucks not having the lines, keeping me out of a raid, among some other things that kept me out.

I'm pretty sure 95% of the playerbase would disagree as well. It's BS.

Bonecrusher and blademaster were about even and both quite well balanced (albeit completely different styles) and now the addition of a healing disabling wound to the head at heavy, +concussion, +fracture just went a bit over the top.

I wouldn't call it overpowered, or a great balance change since if you are at heavy/critical head fighting a BC you're screwed sooner or later. It's just another annoyance in trying to heal those concussions.

I think it's imbalancing, just not so much that it's going to get removed wholesale, which is kind of underhanded by Ethelon.

So you should be able to set up a totally invincible room that no one can possibly get into? Personally, I think that's worse for the game than having a single ability that goes through monoliths.

Agreed. I guess we Moon users traded our favorite utility skill for a change to Shine that actually makes it useful... I'm not sure it was worth it. There really wasn't much wrong with beam. Sure, make it outdoors to solve stockroom/certain imbalance problems... but it's not like the skill needed to be completely nerfed because people were getting jumped in monolithed rooms all the time...

If you read back on the conversation the reasoning was apparently that either ALL orgs should be able to get through these op setups or none, so our skill had to suffer for it. :/

Btw, making it outdoors only would have been roughly as crippling.

Also, I can find something from each other org that I'd love to have, but that Seren doesn't. I'll be contacting my envoy about getting them removed.

Oh? I've always used it for getting around Astral during wildnodes and the likes, or defense purposes in Faethorn mostly. And raiding. But quite frankly, I don't think I've even used beam to get to anyone indoors in several RL days... and that was probably nothing that I couldn't have walked...

EDIT: Oh, point being, usually I just beam to other groups or people who are already engaged, being jumped, etc. Now, that's impossible since alot of times people either drop or are fighting on a mono in big battles.

@ Tael --Moon isn't terrible, it certainly doesn't lack in comparison to Night, though there are different strengths/weaknesses.

I agree with Sylphas. You don't remove/nerf an ability simply because one organization can do something no other organization can do, and no room should be 100% impenetrable. It would have been just as easy to disallow moonbeam'ing into stockrooms and slow it down further when a monolith is present. Anyone who can't make a simple highlight/echo for the message and get out of the room (or prepare to attack, depending on the situation at hand), probably shouldn't have been where they could be targeted in the first place. The same can be said for many other abilities besides moonbeam.

Also, anyone who says that Bonecrushers are on par with Blademasters, Pureblades, and Axelords, is obviously not a Bonecrusher themselves.

Moonbeam certainly did not need the change. I'd like to know who supported it and for what self-serving reasons.

The only needed change was any further assurance regarding stockrooms, as Zarguan said, and disallowing its use while graced.

On that note, is grace being removed? Abuse of it doesn't come up that often but there doesn't seem to be any need for it.

That's the first time I've seen someone put a spec lower than Axelord/Pureblade. Good to see they've been buffed.

I believe the opposite. Anyone who says Bonecrushers are not on par with the other skillsets does not really know how to play one well. I've seen quite a few examples of people doing well for themselves as a Bonecrusher.

Anyhow, I am leary of the idea of a jab given slit-throat like affliction. This is especially the case since envenoming the weapons with Senso+Chansu can lock out both base cures. Though Blademasters can do it in one combo too, they have to get lucky with at least one swing (with the random chance it may hit the chest instead of the head) attack to accomplish it. Bonecrushers can accomplish it with Crushes. Still, I am willing to wait and see how it all plays out. If it does turn out to be overpowered, I am sure there will plenty of victims willing to come forward and give their experiences.

I assure people would be crying (and rightly so to an extent) if slitthroat was a jab. It would be utterly insane how easy it would be to get.

As Geb mentioned, hack downs are unreliable via chest hits. The other, and more impacting factors that currently stop head swings which further that sentiment are obvious (rebound, shield, but mainly parry/stance). Also, the unfortunate eventuality of "let's see how it works and then go from there" is quite the poor way to balance things after the fact. There are only a handful of BCs who fight at all and even less who fight extensively, so it won't be seen much.

I've not seen it in action yet, but if it's as I hear (jab head affliction, identical to slitthroat with different cures) then just wow..

Choke will be on the top of the list, I assume.

First off, this was the last of THREE suggestions Estarra asked for to increase the number of wound afflictions BC had to that of BM. I preferred a kidney affliction over this one, which was not as bad. This is like Slitthroat, except obtainable by Jab/Crush, but it also has two seperate cures, so for the slitlock, we actually have to hit with both venoms and the crushwindpipe in order to lock you. Also, the cleanse change means you are still safe, just pay attention is all.

Also, because of how Champion helms work, the only insane BC eve was Nico. The Helm, because of his weapon stats gave him up to 35% bonus to damage and wounding, so when going for the head, it can be a quick death. Let's not forget, Fracturedskull was just nerfed a few months ago, and that took a huge hit on our offensive capabilities.

The point is that only serens could get though this set up. Only serens could do it, thats obviously imbalanced. Great pent needs a change everyone knows this but so did moon beam, moon beam has had its change to make to balanced in the world, great pent is still waiting for its change.

Moon beam still has a number of uses just it isn't as good as before, now its about equal with other classes traveling skills hence balance.

Seren still has a number of skills that others dont have. Right understand that? Now serens travel skills are fairly balanced with other cities travel skills and thats about the end of the story.

And someone post some logs with this new bonecrusher affliction. I already felt bonecrushers were more powerful than blademasters mainly because they had afflictions on the head that could be achieved with jabs instead of swings.

The admins said "Give us ideas for a new BC skill" (because BC had one less total skills than BM, and recently were massively nerfed with the fractureskull change) and we threw a few unpolished ideas at them, as they were just looking for ideas, not carefully balanced (aka, argued and whined about for hours) skills. This is what they chose to implement. If you feel it is too powerful, talk to your envoy and get it balanced. Stop whining at Ethelon, it's unproductive and silly.

The massive moonbeam nerf was an Admin decision. It was not at all an envoy change. The envoys agreed the skill was fine just a month ago when an envoy out of the blue said "NERF MOONBEAM!" without giving any explaination or context, nor an argument to back up the assertion, and eventually dropped the suggestion.

Thanks Shorlen.

Here is a list of afflictions currently for BM/BC. You will notice, that aside from Concussion(critical) we had bloodynose (50bleed, no affliction) and breakjaw(you take damage when you eat). These were our only jabs, so this was needed a great deal.

BM Jabs- Arm Arteries, Leg Arteries, Pierce Arm, PuncLung, Open Gut, PuncChest, Pierce Leg, SeverNerve, CollapseLung, Pinleg, Impale, LegTendon, HeartPierce

BC Jabs- BloodyNose, BreakJaw, Wind, SlapKnuckle, BreakChest, Knockdown, VomitBlood, Concussion, BurstOrgans, CrushWindpipe


BM Swings- ArmArtery, LegArtery, SliceForehead, OpenGut, SliceEar, SepticWound, Scalp, SlitThroat, Disembowel, Behead

BC Swings- FractureArm, Wind, BreakChest, FractureSkull, Knockdown, BreakArm, Crushchest, Breaknose, VomitBlood, Blackeye, Breakleg, Breakwrist, CrushLeg, Bashbrain