Whereas I can understand the part about lag, you can place lag as a blame on many skills, but I don't see them being downgraded. And it takes you 12 seconds to get out of a room even without lag? I'm still trying to understand the point you're trying to make. And three, some of Shiri's points are valid.. But honestly, the only definitely good ability in Moon is Drawdown, and I think that is all you're basing Moon off of to make the point that it's not underpowered.

Drawdown is definitely good enough to justify some amount of weakness in other skills we have. And waning isn't bad either, as I said. And lash is critical for Moondancers to fight with.

I quite support the changes to moonbeam. I always thought it was kind of lame that monoliths were powerless against it.

I don't see much of a point to it now though, there are other travel options that are just as useful or more useful considering the time delay.

Bit sad to see Moonbeam nerfed but..finally. The Halls can actually be closed off from everyone, and at least one part of the Hartstone Guildhall can't be penetrated as long as we maintain monoliths.

Yep, but as mentioned we have a chance to give it some use so we need to brainstorm for that and inform Hiriako and Laysus

And THAt is why blanknote stops you from eating it for a while.. This is better because now stripping deafness isn't nearly as bad as before.. It was a nerf that opens up better upgrades in the future.

Great job with the Moonbeam changes. Now I can stop being sad that I don't have it, and just be thankful I ditched it before it got savagely raped. Stockroom problem? Should then have said: "* Can no longer Moonbeam into stockrooms."

Neither can my manse. I'm unstoppable in there now.

Moonbeam needed to die because it gave a lopsided penetration ability to only one skillset. Prism tattoo was ok because everybody could do it. Moonbeam was not ok because only Serens could get in and out of a fully fortressed indoor room. The change needed to be either indoors or monoliths. You got the less restrictive of the two. It's not a matter of separate but equal skill balancing. It was Serens yes, rest of Lusternia no. Has nothing to do with stockrooms or lag and everything to do with combat manuevers. It's a balance issue, not just a griefing tool.

Amen to that. I'm just surprised it lasted as long as it did without being changed.

Define "fully fortressed indoor room" and explain how there was no way you can get into one short of monoliths. Are we talking guildhalls? Is this a balance issue? Are we talking greater pentagrams? Are they balanced now that there's only an equally good AND less detectable way to get in accessible to 3 of the 4 orgs? Changing moonbeam has not solved any balance issues that existed in the past, it's just randomly nerfed an otherwise usable skill.

What is this equally good and less detectable way to get in?

Flow! Oh, wait. That's already been nerfed. Repeatedly.

Yeah, um, Crow has track, which bypasses monolith but only works outdoors to outdoors at sky elevation with a substantial delay. It's strictly worse than old-school beaming. Rituals has via, which is a completely different type of skill. I'm not sure what method you're thinking everyone except Serenwilde has to get anywhere. Moon still has moonbeam. It's less useful, yes. It needed to be.

Yes, I'm talking greater pent. Greater pent and walls and monoliths and shields and a ceiling or a brumetower and hard terrain underfoot. I'm talking choke points held by a group.

This "nerf" does not remove non-hostile functionality, aside from the Seren sanctuary hopping and rescuing trapped people from manses. If you're so worried about the loss of moonbeam-esque functionality, poke an envoy and suggest that it be given back to trackers.

I'm asking what kind of situation a room's setup can be in such that no one can get in but Seren. Greater pent and walls and ___ is the ONE thing it nerfs that other people can't deal with. Should it be possible to make a totally invincible setup, or should there be a counter like with every other scenario?

Moonbeam didn't need to be less useful except as regards stockrooms (and MAYBE sanctuary hopping) and I haven't heard a satisfactory reason yet.

Feh. Well, I guess that's valid since they've given us an opportunity to make something useful of the skill in place of that. But it's wrong to say that the skill needed changing because of what it does.

I don't see why they gave BC essentially slitthroat, they already have the best set of headwounds, especially now that slitlocks are less attainable.

Word is Ethelon wanked about them being underpowered, which I disagree with.

YESSS! (insert the old school tounge smile)