ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Aiakon2006-12-11 21:32:14
QUOTE(Ixion @ Dec 11 2006, 09:25 PM) 362252

I prefer to test things myself and use first hand knowledge and experiences before making conclusions. As with most people, I'm always happy to help them bring things to light. Your comment was a bit off color, and rather naive. I indicated that his numbers were off, and as such he needs to test a bit more before making any solid balancing opinions. I personally am glad to have help in things that I do not know.


Perhaps you have a better definition of naive to mine, but I do not see that the word fits. In any case, off colour comments are an integral part of my character.
Geb2006-12-11 22:11:17
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 09:25 PM) 362238

It wasn't you that I was referring to, however, the Envoy in question said that you supported CollapseLungs without the endurance drain component, stating that you believed it would assist locks anyway, and thus should remain.


The person you got that information must have misunderstood me. I do not ever remember saying I supported CollapseLungs without the endurance drain component. Only think I remember saying on the subject is what I've already stated in my previous post.

QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 09:35 PM) 362243

SeverPhrenic needs to be changed if the endurance drain is put back in, as I said before to Roark. Namely, the endurance drain of SeverPhrenic needs to be removed, or reduced to half of what it currently is. It would be an insane combo otherwise.


The endurance drain on SeverPhrenric was not considered that important, when it was thought that Collaspedlungs would maintain its endurance drain. Therefore, I would have no problem with the removal of the 100-endurance loss per action component.
Shorlen2006-12-11 22:18:43
QUOTE(geb @ Dec 11 2006, 05:11 PM) 362271
The endurance drain on SeverPhrenric was not considered that important, when it was thought that Collaspedlungs would maintain its endurance drain. Therefore, I would have no problem with the removal of the 100-endurance loss per action component.

100 endurance loss per action + the 50x endurance enhancing of CollapseLungs would = 5,000 endurance drain per action. Seems a bit much to me, especially since both are afflicts on the same body location, so it would be trivial to get SeverPhrenic once you get CollapseLungs. When I suggested the endurnace drain, for some reason, I was thinking it wouldn't get enhanced by CollapseLungs. Though, when testing started and I realized that CollapseLungs wasn't causing endurance drain, it no longer mattered.
Geb2006-12-11 23:09:31
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 11:18 PM) 362277

100 endurance loss per action + the 50x endurance enhancing of CollapseLungs would = 5,000 endurance drain per action. Seems a bit much to me, especially since both are afflicts on the same body location, so it would be trivial to get SeverPhrenic once you get CollapseLungs. When I suggested the endurnace drain, for some reason, I was thinking it wouldn't get enhanced by CollapseLungs. Though, when testing started and I realized that CollapseLungs wasn't causing endurance drain, it no longer mattered.


I did not explain myself well it seems. When you made the suggestion, I got the impression from you that your suggestion’s small endurance loss from Severphrenic would not be enhanced by the Collaspedlung affliction. So, it would have just been 100 + (50 x the endurance used by the action). That is why I felt the 100 endurance loss per action was trivial.
Gandal2006-12-11 23:46:29
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Dec 11 2006, 04:07 AM) 362067

Sorry Gandal, your post seems to scream: "It's past my bedtime and I still have no clue what I am talking about, so I will just say something stupid again before my mommy turns off my computer and tucks me in for the night."
So, good night little man, I hope you slept well and dreamt of sugar plum fairies and all the little toys you will have under your tree soon.... tongue.gif

I went to bed 3 and a half hours after that. And, obligatorily, explode.gif.
Ildaudid2006-12-11 23:59:37
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 03:25 PM) 362238

It wasn't you that I was referring to, however, the Envoy in question said that you supported CollapseLungs without the endurance drain component, stating that you believed it would assist locks anyway, and thus should remain.
It was a misunderstanding of how the affliction worked. Roark was kind enough to elaborate on why it works the way it does. The way it works is this: when a BM gives you CollapseLungs on top of PunctureLung, it does not take away the PunctureLung afflict and give you the CollapseLungs afflict. Instead, as a part of the CollapseLungs afflict, it makes the PunctureLung afflict incurable and invisible on diagnose as long as you have CollapseLungs. Thus, while you have CollapseLungs, you also have the endurance drain of PunctureLung. Also, when you cure CollapseLungs, it does not cure into PunctureLung - what is actually happening is that PunctureLung is invisible until CollapseLungs is gone, and once it is gone, you can see/cure the PunctureLung afflict.

Therefore, the strongest benefit of CollapseLungs is that it prevents the curing of PunctureLung for at least four seconds. Without PunctureLung, CollapseLungs is a gimped affliction that only causes regen-cured asthma.


Bah I didn't even see your ninja post. glare.gif This seems to explain how BM's work with collapse and puncture lung, but it basically made collapse lungs useless for PB's, but as a BM it looks like they got buffed with a no line smoking affliction stacked with the endurance loss of a hidden puntcure lung. This is great for BM's but like I said, it made Collapse Lungs, practically useless for a PB.

QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 03:35 PM) 362243

SeverPhrenic needs to be changed if the endurance drain is put back in, as I said before to Roark. Namely, the endurance drain of SeverPhrenic needs to be removed, or reduced to half of what it currently is. It would be an insane combo otherwise.


I could deal with severphrenic having no endurance drain and collapse lungs regaining the 50x one. I also saw had Geb's math was and that seems fine too... 100 + (50x endurance used per action) = total amt of endurance lost. That would be not really OP. It would be really nice if phrenic did 100 (willpower) loss per action. Giving the stacked phrenic/collapsed lungs. 100 willpower loss per action and 50x endurance used per action. But I am not sure if that would be considered OP.

Worse case scenario keep phrenic with the asthma thing... and slowing smoke recovery time, but remove the endurance when victim consumes balance. And make Collapse Lungs get its endurance back.

This is the severphrenic AB file:
This is an important nerve for breathing. By severing it, breathing becomes very difficult. This will have several effects. First, it will make it difficult to travel over long distances without losing your breath. Secondly, it will increase the amount of endurance consumed when the victim engages in physical activities (consumes balance). Lastly, it will make it difficult to use smoked cures.

Welp just a thought.

Shorlen2006-12-12 00:06:41
CollapseLungs is CollapseLungs though, I think is the trouble. The way the affliction works is how I explained above. I'm not sure if Roark can easily change the PB version without changing the BM version.
Ildaudid2006-12-12 00:15:55
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 07:06 PM) 362308

CollapseLungs is CollapseLungs though, I think is the trouble. The way the affliction works is how I explained above. I'm not sure if Roark can easily change the PB version without changing the BM version.


Did he not just do that? or is our Collapse Lungs and theirs the exact same? If so, when they pull puncture lungs, then stack collapse on it... they have an upgrade while we have a nerf.?
Shorlen2006-12-12 00:27:33
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Dec 11 2006, 07:15 PM) 362309
Did he not just do that? or is our Collapse Lungs and theirs the exact same? If so, when they pull puncture lungs, then stack collapse on it... they have an upgrade while we have a nerf.?

.... BM collapselungs wasn't changed at all. It still requires puncturelung. They have no upgrade.
Daganev2006-12-12 00:40:48
lack of upgrade is a downgrade...


*duck*
Ildaudid2006-12-12 02:40:40
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 07:27 PM) 362316

.... BM collapselungs wasn't changed at all. It still requires puncturelung. They have no upgrade.


Ok so if they have no "upgrade" then fixing PB's collapse lungs should be easy enough since it still would not affect BM's
Shorlen2006-12-12 02:48:29
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Dec 11 2006, 09:40 PM) 362348
Ok so if they have no "upgrade" then fixing PB's collapse lungs should be easy enough since it still would not affect BM's

... huh? What are you talking about? The condition on the affliction being given was changed for PBs, the affliction itself wasn't changed at all....
Shryke2006-12-12 03:17:32
He's saying that PB's version of collapsed lungs doesn't require punctured, which means they are coded separately. Therefore it shouldn't be THAT difficult to change the PB version without altering the BM version (of collapsed lungs).
Tada!
Shorlen2006-12-12 03:20:56
QUOTE(Shryke @ Dec 11 2006, 10:17 PM) 362360
He's saying that PB's version of collapsed lungs doesn't require punctured, which means they are coded separately. Therefore it shouldn't be THAT difficult to change the PB version without altering the BM version (of collapsed lungs).
Tada!

And I'm saying that the afflictions aren't coded seperately, just the skill that gives the afflictions tongue.gif
Ildaudid2006-12-12 04:37:29
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 11 2006, 10:20 PM) 362362


BM collapselungs wasn't changed at all. It still requires puncturelung. They have no upgrade.

later....

And I'm saying that the afflictions aren't coded seperately, just the skill that gives the afflictions tongue.gif



You are confusing me as well, collapse lungs was changed to a regen cure, and they afflicted person cannot smoke until they cure the collapsed lungs. But what I quoted above led me to believe they are 2 different skills, and that if they changed the PB skill to make it a regen cure, and limiting smoking.... why can't they make it so the PB skill still has the endurance problem.

Ciaran knows exactly what I meant, but from reading what you said, The condition on the affliction? So all that was changed was that it no longer requires the lesser chest affliction to be caused, but the wound level needs to be at critical to hit.

If that is the case why is it not doing the endurance drain? They had to have changed it in someway. So it shouldn't be too terrible to change it back. dunno.gif
Shorlen2006-12-12 05:55:57
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Dec 11 2006, 11:37 PM) 362397
You are confusing me as well, collapse lungs was changed to a regen cure, and they afflicted person cannot smoke until they cure the collapsed lungs. But what I quoted above led me to believe they are 2 different skills, and that if they changed the PB skill to make it a regen cure, and limiting smoking.... why can't they make it so the PB skill still has the endurance problem.

Ciaran knows exactly what I meant, but from reading what you said, The condition on the affliction? So all that was changed was that it no longer requires the lesser chest affliction to be caused, but the wound level needs to be at critical to hit.

If that is the case why is it not doing the endurance drain? They had to have changed it in someway. So it shouldn't be too terrible to change it back. dunno.gif

They didn't change the CollapseLungs affliction at all. Ever. In any way. Let me say this gagain. They didn't chance the CollapseLungs affliction. At all. Ever. In any way.

It used to be impossible to give CollapseLungs without first giving PunctureLung.

The problem was, for PBs, stacking afflictions like that was prohibitively impossible. So, it was never possible to give someone CollapseLungs. We wanted to change this, but without PunctureLung being there too, CollapseLungs doesn't do much.

Let me say it again in case you didn't understand.

CollapseLungs was not what was causing the endurance drain.

PunctureLung was causing the endurance drain.

CollapseLungs stops PunctureLung from being cured.

It still does for PBs, but they don't give PunctureLung first, so that point is moot.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

They changed how the affliction was given, not what the affliction did.

It's like if anorexia hexes could suddenly be thrown off eq with the syntax BITCHSLAP MALARIOUS WITH ANOREXIA. This doesn't change Anorexia at all. This changes how Anorexia can be given.
Genevieve2006-12-12 23:50:02
They need to add the BITCHSLAP MALARIOUS feature.
Clise2006-12-16 02:51:16
ANNOUNCE NEWS #690
Date: 12/16/2006 at 2:32
From: Estarra, the Eternal
To : Everyone
Subj: Misc. Updates

Acrobatics:
-Springup no longer requires equilibrium.
-Dodging works on denizens for purposes of damage mitigation (i.e.,
there is a chance of damage reduction). This never gets to 100%. Though
it has always worked like this, it bears mentioning that the Dodging
skill is based on the Acrobatics skill as well as the parent skill of
Resilience.
-Somersault works more like tumble (though faster).
-Handspring can work while standing though it is faster from the
handstand position.
-Tripleflash does not work for uprooting during Wild Nodes events.

Artifacts:
-The bug giving double bonus for two handed weapons using bleed and
wounding artifact runes has been resolved (they no longer do that).
-On the off chance you have poisoner's gloves and extract poisons into
artifact vials, you will get bonus doses.

Miscellaneous:
-Movement effects that slow you shouldn't completely stop you from
moving. If you find a case where this happens, please bug this IN DETAIL
(i.e., what effects are combining that are preventing movement).
-Illusion manses will be considered aetherbubbles--so no using them as
workarounds to planar travel restrictions and communications. (And no,
that was never meant to be a feature.)

Penned by My hand on the 2nd of Dvarsh, in the year 164 CE.
Diamondais2006-12-16 02:54:27
Bet the Bards are happy! biggrin.gif
Genos2006-12-16 03:10:30
Did they fix the pit climbing problem for Bards?