Most of the people I kill with maelstrom+hail are dying to hailstorm at around the same time, just a little longer. The ones who aren't usually tumble when they get that low.

Forren, we all know Aquas are on the top right now, I still think currents should be GONE, poof, but I understand you wish to compromise on your OP skills, please recognize that Maelstorm isn't balanced because it does more damage. The balance between GEO passive damage, and Aqua passive damage, is your infamous aqua staff... You seem to compare X to Y, then X to Z, saying both are balanced, therefor even though you have Y AND Z, your skills are balanced.

My same argument is used for Currents' removal..
Swimming(hailstorm+flood)=Rubble
Currents>Rubble
Whirlpool=Stonewalls
Anyone notice that rubble is there twice? Either Hailstorm+flood needs to remove the need to swim, or currents needs to be REMOVED, not just blocked by protection.

Maelstrom hurts like crazy. Then again, so does Pollute. Pollute's damage will be increased by artifacts, while Maelstrom will not (Damage source: Magic means that intelligence and magic artifact will increase the ability's damage). However, on the other hand Maelstrom gets a damage boost by the demesne if the person is not placing back up his frost and fire defenses. Add in the fact that all of them strip shields from the person, and it is pretty easy for a mage to staff and kill many people right after the effect hits.

The only true way to avoid the abilities, if you are not blessed to have Numen, is to run! Don’t look back; run as fast as you can to get to somewhere safe. Unfortunately, even that is not always easy to do considering the demesnes.

Edit:

Oh, and I do hold my breath to help me tank Maelstrom. It does help, if I am not being forced to perform actions like shielding over and over.

You people are silly and appear not to ever read things people write. I'll say it again anyway.

Fury. Pollute. Maelstrom.
Ignore intelligence.
Ignore damage type.

Test it for youreself.

They use a modified version of the Thunderclap formula.

They do damage based SOLELY on maximum health.

Athana's Pollute does the SAME EXACT damage as my fury. Pollute is listed as 100% poison and magical source. Fury is listed as 100% cutting and no source. Shaddai, our victim, had greatrobes on, Serpent bond, and Athana has absurd int. Yet still, despite varying conditions, our attacks did the *same exact* damage.

Please stop arguing about which of Fury, Maelstrom, and Pollute is better. They are the SAME EXACT skill.

I... think the point was that some are weak to Maelstrom, but some are stronger against it. On the other hand, the only ones strong to pollute are magnagorans, everyone else is nuetral to it. Plus, as its been said, there is no way to resist poison, where all but the unblockable is easily resisted in maelstrom. Or, maybe eventually someone will listen to Shorlen, but I doubt it Wonder how long he'll keep trying to tell us.....



Only because if I don't, people like you will get it nerfed for no reason at all. You think its fine that Celestians can't leave their nexus, so one kind of has to doubt your judgement.

That, and shieldwhore IMMEDIATELY when it hits (before won't make a difference). Cure to full health and proceed to kill the mage.

Spot-on. I also fail to see a difference between Poison and unblockable for all practical uses.


Squishy mage go splat

Resilience?


If what Shorlen is saying is true, though, we're whining over nothing.

Yeah, Ildaudid seems to be under the impression that lightning damage against sometime proofed against it does more damage then poison damage with no resistance at all.



Thought that was just physical damage?

Edit: Think the poison handling mentioned in the file is just shrugging, though it would be interesting to check.

Umm, Snake totem?


I'm 99% sure you're wrong. Resilience is physical damage and poison afflicts. Not poison damage, which is resisted by things like Snake totem and Shadowdance Garb.

There you have it, nerf communes, not maelstrom

I'm not 100% sure, which is why I posed it as a question.

Not that I really want to get involved in this, especially with Shorlen saying over and over again that they all do the same amount of damage, but Crow cloaks give you poison protection, or at least they used to, and I think Spiritbond snake does as well. Or one of the nature spirits.

Edit: That's the first time I've ever been ninja-d on anything. And it was a mass orgy ninja.

Actually you are wrong there, like you said, listen to Shorlen. Not much in this game is nerfed and if it gets nerfed nearly ALL envoys are in agreement with it. Also I would never waste an envoy slot trying to nerf another skillset. You have to remember if you try to nerf other skillsets as an envoy, the people with that skill set will most likely turn it around and try and nerf you..... or just plain ol veto it... and your opinion will not matter much to most of the other envoys, if that is all you are doing.

Now Shorlen, you said you tested pollute with Athana, and you tested Fury, now did you actually test Maelstrom? Or are you assuming it is the same as the rest, like it is supposed to be. If you did test it can you post the Fury, Maelstrom and Pollution tests?

Because we both know sometimes things fall through the cracks and may not be working like they should be (example bards and pits)

So please post your results if you still have them. Thank you

.... how did I miss the question mark? Gods, I'm tired


Forren couldn't be arsed to stop raiding Nil and test things

He said he would test it next time he saw Shaddai around (I think), since Shaddai's been our test subject thus far. I can't log in right now, but we could test it on another target sometime when I can.

EDIT: Oh, and I posted tests in another thread somewhere. When we have more tests, I'll post them here.

EDIT EDIT: Testing it too much is a pain. I'm too lazy to go into arenas, so I have to spend 10p every time

A single wall? What about leap, tumble, fly and crash? What about aetherships with a clever system of flashpoints? What about defensive rifts raised at places where it is extremely difficult if not impossible for enemies to distort? What about cubixing onto the plane? Do ecology paths work on Celestia? Can you burrow into the soil at the Pool? Can you get a druid to raise briars or an elementalist to raise firewalls so that stonewalls won't fit? Can you get a wiccan to provide you with dryad trees in case you need to climb over walls?

Have you been through all the possibilities of how to deal with this tactic, or did you just decide to give up and whine?

Quote me:
"My same argument is used for Currents' removal..
Swimming(hailstorm+flood)=Rubble"

Quote Acrune:
"What does hailstorm have to do with rubble? And the need to swim is block with protection (no needlerain with protection), so rubble>flood"

WRONG!
Now that I've gotten that out, I'll explain it.

While it may be nice that protection stops hailstorm, you also note that protection doesn't stop rubble, that is, not even for ALLIES! For this reason and this reason alone, they are very arguably balanced. (that is, rubble slows EVERYONE, and swimming only slows your enemies (once you've stripped protection, which doesn't even take balance(and it's easy to make an alias to strip all your enemies at once))
So.. In an aquas demesne, you run slow, and they chase fast.. but you're quick on the way into your doom at least!
On the other hand, in geo demesne, you're slow, but so are they! You get a room away, and you're winnin the race!

Now, there is another benefit to hailstorm+flood, that is, it's in EVERY room you've demesned, INSTANTLY, that is, you don't have to wait for rubble to fall down and block exits! Okay? How can you even THINK they aren't comparable?! If you make that case, then you should argue that people shouldn't have to swim in your demesne, considering it's an extra passive skill.

Let's go through it one by one then ^^
(1) Leap is commune only unless you are referring to mount leap. Tumble and leap both bypasses the single wall true, but chances are you are leaping into a trap on the other side and thus to your death.

(2) Aethership with flashpoints, let's not make people having to be near trans in all skills to be able to defend their plane shall we?

(3) Uh, any rifts placed on Celestia is distortable easily. Unless you can place them at the Supernals which I do not know if it is possible. Don't forget raiders get the advantage of momentum.

(4) Cubixing to defend is a possibility, but its a 2000 CR artifact. So now people have to cough up hundreds of dollars to defend their own plane?

(5) Ecology is applicable only to druids who can place them. We have no druids. Even if trackers can use them, don't forget the rest can't teleport to the tracker from the nexus who will be dead without support.

(6) Its Celest .... what burrow? Only commune members with totem and Geomancers can do it viably. Otherwise you are depending on an artie that is only available through the artie auctions.

(7) Point to you about having an elementalist to place a firewall. That is possible indeed.

(8) Climb again is a lowbie skill in totems and quite high in environment. My point about not making everyone having to have near trans skill to be able to defend their plane still stands.

That is not truly viable Forren. You have to shield constantly or run when it is going off. If the person sits there and lets you staff after you start the process, he/she could be dead by Mealstrom alone. Remember, you got me twice with it. Once with a staff right after and one time with staff attacks right before with Maelstrom outright killing me. So yes, if the person is unable to run then said person needs to work to keep the mage from staffing them while those abilities are initiated.

For Shorlen:

Under normal circumstances, damage source: Magic means that the ability is augmented by intelligence and the artifact that boosts damage from a magic source. I personally used the basic meaning of that system to make my statement. Since you have evidence that such is not the case for polution, then perhaps the file should be updated to damage source: none.

I can test mealstorm with someone. Just catch me in game.

EDIT:

I also thikn that poison damage type is quite ok. So except communes, who will get level 1 poison resistance. Noone else have acces to it.
Where resistances to fire is plenty. Asphyxation, hold breathe? Lightning, around as much to fire, except potion.
And yes there are races weak against fire and lighting, but there also are some strong against them.