Sylphas2005-08-04 22:51:00
Sure, I'll flow into Alger, Daevos, and Kaervas, for example. Summon = they come to your group. Flow = you go to their group.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:06:43
Hah! I love how they say, "You can't take Wisp into account, because Druids can't do that. We're comparing Mages to Druids here."
Then, two seconds later, "Yeah, I'll flow into Daevos, Alger, Murphy, etc."
Hey guys, welcome to the guild! Guess I get to pull rank on you now!
Wait...no. That's stupid.
The fact is, it takes longer to Chop than to RC, -and- you don't have to learn a secondary skill to do it.
I walk in, instantly writhe. Chop the tree down, focus body. Get down from the tree I've been thrown into by this time, -then- taint. Meanwhile, you can Flow to me and fight me. For free.
You walk into my Demesne, I whore Demesne Summon, and if I'm lucky, I successfully summon you before all my Power vanishes. Or before you RC and forest. Oh, I'm sorry. You walk in, manage to time it wrong, so you get hit by Lodestone, so you face 1.5 seconds of stun before you RC, and then forest. My bad.
Then, two seconds later, "Yeah, I'll flow into Daevos, Alger, Murphy, etc."
Hey guys, welcome to the guild! Guess I get to pull rank on you now!
Wait...no. That's stupid.
The fact is, it takes longer to Chop than to RC, -and- you don't have to learn a secondary skill to do it.
I walk in, instantly writhe. Chop the tree down, focus body. Get down from the tree I've been thrown into by this time, -then- taint. Meanwhile, you can Flow to me and fight me. For free.
You walk into my Demesne, I whore Demesne Summon, and if I'm lucky, I successfully summon you before all my Power vanishes. Or before you RC and forest. Oh, I'm sorry. You walk in, manage to time it wrong, so you get hit by Lodestone, so you face 1.5 seconds of stun before you RC, and then forest. My bad.
Terenas2005-08-04 23:09:18
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Aug 4 2005, 11:06 PM)
The fact is, it takes longer to Chop than to RC, -and- you don't have to learn a secondary skill to do it.
161601

Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:10:19
And on another note, I think the only people that've been trying to say Ignite should be instant are people who's main character is Serenwilde.
Try paying attention, I'll use small words so it's easy to understand.
We don't want it instant. We want it to take several seconds - around 10 or so, which is still -lots- of time to react. But that doesn't require us to put hordes of lessons into a skillset, when you don't need to in order to defend. And so we don't have to deal with switching between a staff and axe constantly.
Try paying attention, I'll use small words so it's easy to understand.
We don't want it instant. We want it to take several seconds - around 10 or so, which is still -lots- of time to react. But that doesn't require us to put hordes of lessons into a skillset, when you don't need to in order to defend. And so we don't have to deal with switching between a staff and axe constantly.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:11:51
QUOTE(terenas @ Aug 4 2005, 06:09 PM)

161602
Sorry, that was bad wording on my part.
I meant, you don't have to learn a secondary skill to plant your -sapling.-
Once again, I apologize for the miscommunication.
Elryn2005-08-04 23:12:16
Do you really want to make it easier to realitycheck?
Sylphas2005-08-04 23:14:26
Illusions is a guild skill. Discernment isn't. Now you actually have to learn a non-guild skill to break our demesnes, like we do yours.
And you only need chop once in a non-natural forest.
And you only need chop once in a non-natural forest.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:14:43
QUOTE(Elryn @ Aug 4 2005, 06:12 PM)
Do you really want to make it easier to realitycheck?
161605
I'm not sure where that came from, or the logic behind it.
Please elaborate on how you drew that conclusion.
Sylphas2005-08-04 23:16:36
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Aug 4 2005, 07:10 PM)
We don't want it instant. We want it to take several seconds - around 10 or so, which is still -lots- of time to react. But that doesn't require us to put hordes of lessons into a skillset, when you don't need to in order to defend. And so we don't have to deal with switching between a staff and axe constantly.
161603
This is when I laugh and tell you to STFU. Try juggling sickle/cudgel/shield, then complain about that. Also, we need to put hordes of lessons into Discernment to break yours, stop whining.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:16:49
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Aug 4 2005, 06:14 PM)
Illusions is a guild skill. Discernment isn't. Now you actually have to learn a non-guild skill to break our demesnes, like we do yours.
And you only need chop once in a non-natural forest.
And you only need chop once in a non-natural forest.
161606
Yes, congratulations. You've stated the obvious, and what's been covered repeatedly already. Your parents must be -very- proud.
Let me elaborate on that point again, however, since it seems to not be sinking it. Yes, Terrain is a guild skill. However, it's a -secondary- guild skill. Meaning, we need to invest approximately 50% more lessons than you to be on equal footing in regards to breaking a Demesne.
I hope this has been helpful.
Elryn2005-08-04 23:17:54
The saplings are a balancing mechanic to bring Druid demesnes into line with Mage demesnes in breakability.
If you make removing saplings ridiculously easy, in addition to another attack against demesnes of druid type only, then there must be a corresponding modification to the way that illusory terrain is removed.
If you make removing saplings ridiculously easy, in addition to another attack against demesnes of druid type only, then there must be a corresponding modification to the way that illusory terrain is removed.
Sylphas2005-08-04 23:17:55
I'd be fine with it in Stag.
Terenas2005-08-04 23:19:27
I would be fine too if it was in Stag, then we'd have more Serenguards who can do it. 

Unknown2005-08-04 23:20:54
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Aug 4 2005, 05:34 PM)
First, I already mentioned flamed monolith sigils. And yes, I -happen- to have 50k gold I want to spend on monolith sigils, an average of once a year.
And...Oh my god, no! I made a minor mistake on how mulching for wood works, oh the humanity! The point still stands, you -can- create commodities, we -cannot-. Party A) Possible, but time consuming. Party
Impossible.
Now, aside from pointing out what I already had (Three times), and attempting to flame me because I got a minor point on a skill I don't have wrong....what have you done to invalidate my arguement?
What's that? "Nothing," you say? Because I'm right, and the only thing you have to work with is CapsLock, in the vain hope that it'll distract everyone from what was said?
I thought so.
And...Oh my god, no! I made a minor mistake on how mulching for wood works, oh the humanity! The point still stands, you -can- create commodities, we -cannot-. Party A) Possible, but time consuming. Party

Now, aside from pointing out what I already had (Three times), and attempting to flame me because I got a minor point on a skill I don't have wrong....what have you done to invalidate my arguement?
What's that? "Nothing," you say? Because I'm right, and the only thing you have to work with is CapsLock, in the vain hope that it'll distract everyone from what was said?
I thought so.
161569
Ah, very well. I figured your arguement was heavily based on what was emphasized - us being able to farm an infinite amount of wood, with the only cost being about 500 or so mana. Apparantly, I was wrong.
Very well! I can create wood, after two years. I am, after all, a druid. That's what I do. I tend plantlife. I grow trees. I serve Hart. It is an amazing concept and belief that, in a forest, I get wood. I know, this is REALLY hard for you. Trees = wood. I know, I know - those logs in your porcelain throne really aren't where paper comes from. But yea. Trees. Amazing. So cool. 1337, as some would say.
Now, to your bit about not being able to, with lots of effort, create commodities - you're really getting as bit late on this subject. Druids have been able to make wood since the game opened. We plant a moonhart (which grows a HELL of a lot faster). 5 saplings grow into 5 matures - 2 of these are mulched for, what, 6 wood each? they then become 3 enormous ones, which 2 are mulched for a large amount of wood. Each.
What commodity would you like to create? I mean, Taint is fairly incompitent as far as MAKING life goes, so, trees, fruits, veggies, eggs, milk. These are all out. Taint is very good at, however, extending life indeffinately - would you like to be able to make the rocks around you live for a really long time? If so, I'm sure such could be arranged.
Ah, I'm being unfair, aren't I? Would you like to make gold? Well, as stated - give me your ubermesne, and I'll give you the ability to make wood, after a very long drawn out process. Which can only be done in my forest, or in Faethorn (which it never is, because Blacktalon mulch our saplings, so you can demesne). Visa-versa for 9/10s of the Blacktalon, as well. Hmm. I'm really failing to see your point here. Amazingly, we can make wood after two years - probably a cheap amount, but, some. You could (this is a real novel concept, really innovative, and perhaps beyond your years!) ASK Glomdoring if you could cut some trees. I know. Very hard to believe. But it works.
As to your flamed monoliths. Be glad a monolith stops wisp AT ALL. Geocast summon is stopped by nothing but perhaps my own fat ass. And, as a faeling, this is very difficult. Here, you're paying a bit more (commodity wise), while having a like skill be only occasionally blocked, and based on a stat. Here, we can't block it - however, a different guild all together can make wood. For furniture. Hot damn, I feel REALLY cool now.
Sylphas2005-08-04 23:20:58
Or it'd be like the abilities in Druidry you only get with Stag, just the opposite.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:21:03
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Aug 4 2005, 06:17 PM)
I'd be fine with it in Stag.
161613
See, -that- would make it balanced. If you had to invest the same effort into defending your Demesne from being broken, as we do. As we need to invest similar amounts of effort into a Common skill in order to counter said defense.
The fire was a suggestion, maybe a bad one. Perhaps this is a better one. Either way, currently Druids have the advantage.
And for those geniuses out there who feel it's important to point out that Mages have held such an advantage for a long time, I've supported changes to the Hartstone to permit them to have a similar defense.
Sylphas2005-08-04 23:23:56
I'm always amused by how I can like you on the forums, but constantly feel like outguilding you IC. Kudos for good RP. 

Elryn2005-08-04 23:32:38
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Aug 5 2005, 09:21 AM)
See, -that- would make it balanced. If you had to invest the same effort into defending your Demesne from being broken, as we do. As we need to invest similar amounts of effort into a Common skill in order to counter said defense.
161617
I think this is kind of an irrelevent argument for change. Don't the admin have better things to do than worry about the hordes of demesners who choose to learn ONLY their one demesne skill, totally ignoring their other guild skills?
Unfortunately, as politically correct as it might be, do tree-planting skills really belong in Stag/Crow? Go on, actually think about it.
Ixchilgal2005-08-04 23:34:21
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Aug 4 2005, 06:20 PM)
Ah, very well. I figured your arguement was heavily based on what was emphasized - us being able to farm an infinite amount of wood, with the only cost being about 500 or so mana. Apparantly, I was wrong.
Very well! I can create wood, after two years. I am, after all, a druid. That's what I do. I tend plantlife. I grow trees. I serve Hart. It is an amazing concept and belief that, in a forest, I get wood. I know, this is REALLY hard for you. Trees = wood. I know, I know - those logs in your porcelain throne really aren't where paper comes from. But yea. Trees. Amazing. So cool. 1337, as some would say.
Now, to your bit about not being able to, with lots of effort, create commodities - you're really getting as bit late on this subject. Druids have been able to make wood since the game opened. We plant a moonhart (which grows a HELL of a lot faster). 5 saplings grow into 5 matures - 2 of these are mulched for, what, 6 wood each? they then become 3 enormous ones, which 2 are mulched for a large amount of wood. Each.
What commodity would you like to create? I mean, Taint is fairly incompitent as far as MAKING life goes, so, trees, fruits, veggies, eggs, milk. These are all out. Taint is very good at, however, extending life indeffinately - would you like to be able to make the rocks around you live for a really long time? If so, I'm sure such could be arranged.
Ah, I'm being unfair, aren't I? Would you like to make gold? Well, as stated - give me your ubermesne, and I'll give you the ability to make wood, after a very long drawn out process. Which can only be done in my forest, or in Faethorn (which it never is, because Blacktalon mulch our saplings, so you can demesne). Visa-versa for 9/10s of the Blacktalon, as well. Hmm. I'm really failing to see your point here. Amazingly, we can make wood after two years - probably a cheap amount, but, some. You could (this is a real novel concept, really innovative, and perhaps beyond your years!) ASK Glomdoring if you could cut some trees. I know. Very hard to believe. But it works.
As to your flamed monoliths. Be glad a monolith stops wisp AT ALL. Geocast summon is stopped by nothing but perhaps my own fat ass. And, as a faeling, this is very difficult. Here, you're paying a bit more (commodity wise), while having a like skill be only occasionally blocked, and based on a stat. Here, we can't block it - however, a different guild all together can make wood. For furniture. Hot damn, I feel REALLY cool now.
Very well! I can create wood, after two years. I am, after all, a druid. That's what I do. I tend plantlife. I grow trees. I serve Hart. It is an amazing concept and belief that, in a forest, I get wood. I know, this is REALLY hard for you. Trees = wood. I know, I know - those logs in your porcelain throne really aren't where paper comes from. But yea. Trees. Amazing. So cool. 1337, as some would say.
Now, to your bit about not being able to, with lots of effort, create commodities - you're really getting as bit late on this subject. Druids have been able to make wood since the game opened. We plant a moonhart (which grows a HELL of a lot faster). 5 saplings grow into 5 matures - 2 of these are mulched for, what, 6 wood each? they then become 3 enormous ones, which 2 are mulched for a large amount of wood. Each.
What commodity would you like to create? I mean, Taint is fairly incompitent as far as MAKING life goes, so, trees, fruits, veggies, eggs, milk. These are all out. Taint is very good at, however, extending life indeffinately - would you like to be able to make the rocks around you live for a really long time? If so, I'm sure such could be arranged.
Ah, I'm being unfair, aren't I? Would you like to make gold? Well, as stated - give me your ubermesne, and I'll give you the ability to make wood, after a very long drawn out process. Which can only be done in my forest, or in Faethorn (which it never is, because Blacktalon mulch our saplings, so you can demesne). Visa-versa for 9/10s of the Blacktalon, as well. Hmm. I'm really failing to see your point here. Amazingly, we can make wood after two years - probably a cheap amount, but, some. You could (this is a real novel concept, really innovative, and perhaps beyond your years!) ASK Glomdoring if you could cut some trees. I know. Very hard to believe. But it works.
As to your flamed monoliths. Be glad a monolith stops wisp AT ALL. Geocast summon is stopped by nothing but perhaps my own fat ass. And, as a faeling, this is very difficult. Here, you're paying a bit more (commodity wise), while having a like skill be only occasionally blocked, and based on a stat. Here, we can't block it - however, a different guild all together can make wood. For furniture. Hot damn, I feel REALLY cool now.
161615
Once again, genetic defects shine through.
And we're back to comparing it to Wisp, I see. Which I'm pretty certain said not to do, since Druids can't do that (Which, incidentally, I stopped doing after it was requested, as it -was- a reasonable request). However, I'll respond to it, since it was brought up again.
-One- Geomancer can summon a person for -3- power, in a place that is tainted -and- melded. It's affected by a stat (Size), and by certain skills (Malkuth, for exampe), but ignores Pentagram and Monolith. Always lose the 3 power, regardless of success or failure.
50 Serenwilders can Wisp you. It's local area effect, but requires no Meld - so, you only need to forest. It's stopped by Pentagram, and by Monolith. Both of which are rediculously easy to get around, if you're not completely incompetent. Oh, and it only costs 1 Power...and I've heard conflicting stories on this point, but general consensus that I've been told is that it does not cost you Power, if the Wisp fails. If someone who isn't a stupid git could confirm that one way or another, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Now, as for being able to create wood...you'll notice, in my later posts, I even dropped -that- point. However, since it was once again brought up, I shall answer it too - yes, it makes sense for Druids to be able to get wood. Thank you for once more, stating the obvious. Do I -really- want Geomancers to be able to create a commodity? Well, it'd be nice, but it's hardly something I'm worried about. But it's not out of the realm of reason that they'd be able to dig up iron, gold, silver, marble, or other minerals from certain locations. Just as an example. Once more, I'm not seriously suggesting they -can- do this.
None of that, however, changes the fact that you go one and on and on about how something needs to be "balanced," and when someone agrees with you, and a change is made that doesn't balance anything, it simply unbalances in your favour, you're -instantly- refusing to have it actually balanced.
Which draws me to the conclusion that you're really just the tree hugging version of a feminist. Equal rights my ass. You want to "win," however you define that. And really, so do I, so I can't blame you for wishing such. But please, try not to be so transparent about it.
Nyla2005-08-04 23:43:39
The problem with it being in Stag or Crow is the fact that we share it with Seren/Ebonguard. Kinda doesnt make sense for warriors to be able to make a demesne unbreakable or even create saplings for that matter.