Revelant report is thus:



Revelant data concerning Temporary Insanity is as follows: (Tested on July 18th 2010, GMT)

Testing was done against a target with no insanity resist, with a sample of 100 for each (and then 300 for the first two levels, where no results were obtained) measuring command loss due to temporary insanity effects.



Furthermore, the spread of levels of insanity over applications of revlations is as follows:



Which is, last I heard anyway, a wider spread than timewarp in Aeonics.

Given that the impact of temporary insanity is a 2% command loss, and then, only at a major/massive case, it is difficult to call this a meaningful factor in fights, let alone "worlds apart in strength" compared to timewarp, in anything approaching good concience.

Furthermore, it should be noted that, however slight the impact of timewarp levels are, it applies to every bal/eq, rather than a 2% fire rate.

Both are negligible in the extreme, and I would argue that they should be exactly thus. Alternately, if Timewarp is going to be improved to be useful on its own, then Temporary Insanity should be changed to be what it is, incorrectly, being propped up to be.

I don't see why a thread was made on this. This is already an envoy report and it is already being debated by the envoys.

So everyone can come see the information.

To provide facts in a clean format that could not be properly accounted for via traditional venues.

I tested this with my Envoy. I could bother him to post it instead of myself, if this is offensive.

I don't really care one way or another, but I always thought that it was a rule that envoy reports should not be debated on the forums unless it's a special report. *shrug*

How far did you test your numbers for the levels?

I think Inky and I ended up with at least 14 levels for timewarps and the timewarp ability giving slightly variable levels(1-3 or something) with other timewarping abilities normally only giving 1 level. That was close to release though, so might be misremembering.

After massive you can spam revelations till you are blue in the face it, doesn't increase further.

Timewarp has a longer spread to place on a person. I have no clue what the cure spread is on Temp insanity, but the cure spread on TimeWarp is shorter than the afflict spread.

The spread to afflict TimeWarp:

1. minorly
2. moderately
3. moderately
4. moderately
5. majorely
6. majorely
7. majorely
8. massively
9. massively
10. massively

The spread to cure TimeWarp:
0. massively
1. massively
2. massively
3. majorely
4. majorely
5. moderately
6. moderately
7. minorly
8. all cured

Edited to reflect new information Saran exposed me to.

Tempinsnaity is also faster to cure, though I can't find where I had it. As for the initial applications, that's odd. When I tested it with Shuyin back right after Templars were released, Timewarp build faster. I'll adjust the OP regardless.

Well, not necessarily. You forget that temp insanity curing can be hindered by BadLuck, which hinders Focus Mind. TimeWarp has nothing a research can do on his own can hinder a person from curing it with focus mind. So, as long as BadLuck is kept on a person, which costs no power, Temp Insanity will take longer to cure up.

I was talking about raw applictations. And by "shorter to cure", I only meant in relation to itself building up. I mean, I would imagine that Timewarp takes signifigantly longer, in the most absoulte sense (not in relation to anything else, but just measuring time), to cure, when the victim is trapped in aeon (as most things take longer to do!). But, really, that entire line is tertiary to the point of the thread, I included it for completeness.

The only thing I'm really trying to demonstrate here is the facts of what temp insanity does. That is, like timewarp, extremely little, even at very high levels. Temp insanity is a very very very low fire rate and loses one command. Timewarp adds a very very small amount of time on to *every* balance.

Both present their danger in regards to what they allow other abilities to do, as a result of their level, not effect. It should probably remain like this, and certainly, 417 is extremely off base calling them "worlds apart".

The report is not about temp insanity + Badluck being way harder to cure than timewarp by itself. The report is that timewarp by itself does less than Temp insanity by itself and a desire to improve timewarp, based on an overdramatic, misinformed statement of temp insanity being worlds apart from timewarp.

Akui's findings show that temp insanity does in fact less than timewarp in the overall scheme of things, as timewarp affects every action, temp insanity affects 2% of actions.

You should not have mentioned the the stuff you are calling extraneous now into your argument then. Don't try to support your argument with a bunch of information, and then try to remove the information once it is countered by another.

Anyhow, I really don't care if TimeWarp is changed, and actually told others that the function it serves right now is fine with me. I do find suggestion 2 to be interesting though, since it would make more sense that TimeWarp cause a person to take longer to reapply the quicksilver defense instead of it increasing the balance/equilibrium time on each action. It would mesh well with Aeonics overall than what it does now. By the way, The balance/equilibrium malus was never the most important feature of TimeWarp in my opinion, just like the command denial feature of Temp Insanity is not considered by me to be it's most important feature.

Have you checked? It obviously wouldn't change the actual general level, but I think there are one to two levels over the max for timewarping.



There are more than that. And the curing wasn't always consistent

Have you checked it lately?

I use it over and over to test thing on myself, and have not noticed any more to it than what I have shown. So, I suggest you test it now for yourself and show the results.

No, I didn't test. I just figured I would throw that out as a fact for the fun of it.


Of course I tested. It was one of the very first things tested.

I disagree that I did this at all, the refrennce was to the thread derailing off on something included for comparative completeness. It has been addressed in the edit. Nothing was removed, naturally, the post sits in its original state, because I believe in the candid exchange of factual information, and would not want to obfuscate anything that was initially there, or, indeed, even present that possibility by removing it. My "argument", though honestly this was more about clarifying facts, began and ended with the information on what tempinsanity actually does, as I found the language in report 417 to be unrepresentative of this.

Regardless, my apologies for including the information on building levels at all in the first place. They are not necessary strictly speaking to discuss the actual effects of temporary inanity or time warp.

Ultimately, I feel the vigorously tested data speaks for itself, better than I could manage.

I agree, badluck + insanity is a better combination than timewarp + ??? and should be fixed.

Greg, it's a trap! They just want a cage match! The thread is not remotely about anything outside of Temporary insanity and timewarp.

...unless we're gonna rag on choke. We can do that anytime.

Ask Incabulos, I think he kept the details. But we tested it only a couple weeks ago so if anything had changed it hasn't been mentioned in an announce.

What I do remember however is that when we were expecting the same results from the same actions, we got different results and that horehound was less effective.